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Old 13-02-2009, 00:11   #1
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Question about storm jib.

My new boat will have a cutter rig, with both foresails on furlers. Is it advisable to have a separate storm jib, and if so, how would it be deployed with both genoa and staysail already on the furler?
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Old 13-02-2009, 00:28   #2
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I thought the idea was to have the storm jib be the partialy furled inner (cutter) jib.

I'm not getting on deck to pull down a sail and run up a storm jib...




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Old 13-02-2009, 00:39   #3
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On a cutter the staysail usually doubles as a storm jib, usually built of heavier material than the genoa. Not too sure with a furling staysail though I can't see why it can't be the same, as you roll it up it flattens and of course as the wind rises the flatter sail copes better with the stronger wind.
On my rig (non furling) I have reef points in the staysail.
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Old 13-02-2009, 00:48   #4
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Thank you both for your replies. That's what I also thought and understood. I got some doubts when somebody told me I would need a separate storm jib, and thought 'well, what to do with the furlers then?'

Thanks for clarifying this for me!
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Old 13-02-2009, 06:01   #5
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I have reef points in the staysail.

You have to go on to the foredeck to reef it, no?

Have to say I'm with MarkJ on that.

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Old 13-02-2009, 06:39   #6
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Storm Jib

A storm jib is a purpose built sail designed to keep a sailboat moving "Powered up" in very heavy weather, many times off shore where the tactics employed can determine the survival of the vessel. While it is correct that a staysail is usually built of a heavier material than a Jenny, it is not a stom sail. A storm jib is much heavier than a "staysil" usually triple stiched, roped all around, with heavy reinforcements at the clew, tack and head. Designed for winds that can blow out even a reefed staysail. You need to ask yourself if you plan to sail in these type of conditions and if the answer is yes storm sails would be required. I believe there may be some type of systems for attaching storm sails to furled sails, if not an additional inner stay and haylyards could be set up to accomodate your needs.
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Old 13-02-2009, 07:44   #7
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ATN makes a storm headsail that's designed to fasten around the furled headsail
ATN Home Page -- sailing, sail, storm, gale, tacker, spinnaker, sleeve, stasher, flasher, douser, chute scoop, sally, case, furler, roller, reefed sail, single handed, short handed, cruising, transatlantic, round the world, Jules Verne Trophy, BOC, w

I have never talked with anyone who has used one
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Old 13-02-2009, 08:00   #8
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Could you not just have the jib self-furling and leave the staysail as a hanked on. Most of the time you will only use the genoa/jib anyway, easy enough to drop the hanked staysail and run up a storm staysail if you are thinking ahead - much easier to work on than the jib - depending on its placement of course.

I suppose an alternative would be to rig the staysail as a removeable self-furler (bit like a small code 0) amd have a removeable stay also. Most of the time could use the furler and pull it off when the weather looks dirty and reconnect the stay for the stormsail. Messy maybe but no big deal.
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Old 13-02-2009, 13:53   #9
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Connemarra, you have to go on the foredeck to reef it, yes. I could probably rig a remote system if I really put my mind to it though.
Cburger, I agree that a "proper storm jib" is heavier with rope all around, (my staysail is triple stitched) but in conditions that would require me to use a storm jib I would already be lying to my sea anchor, this is more related to the design of my boat rather than a general situation for other yachts.
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Old 13-02-2009, 14:21   #10
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My previous boat came with a storm jib with a wire luff. It was a usefull sail, and could be raised on the spinnaker halyard. This was nice insurance if the furler ever packed it in, and also allowed the sail to be used wing and wing for dead down sailing. Like a storm trysail you can have it bagged and loaded on deck if you think you are in for weather you don't have time to get out of.
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Old 13-02-2009, 15:22   #11
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I just bought one used in near-perfect condition. I purposely went with a very undersized one. (60 square feet for a 50 foot boat is very small.) We were in 40 gusting to 50 knots on Long Island Sound last October. I was wishing I had something to keep the bow to leeward when our main was double reefed. We used the engine to help with steerage. (I don't want to be wishing I had one, if the engine ever quits. Better to have one and not use it.)

I'll have to post any experiences we have with it. I may have to get a bigger one if this one doesn't do the job.
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Old 13-02-2009, 16:17   #12
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Quote:
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On a cutter the staysail usually doubles as a storm jib, usually built of heavier material than the genoa. Not too sure with a furling staysail though I can't see why it can't be the same, as you roll it up it flattens and of course as the wind rises the flatter sail copes better with the stronger wind.
On my rig (non furling) I have reef points in the staysail.
Roller reefing a jib makes the draft deeper and too far forward. All the furlers I've seen have the tack and head swivel independent of the foil to try to wrap more of the middle of the sail than the ends. Some people have a triangular wedge of foam or ropes sewn into the luff to make the middle bulkier to take up the extra cloth as well. Rule of thumb I've read is that you can take 3-4 wraps before the sail shape gets bad. I have a tendency to put the #3 on if there is going to a few days of more wind since the shape of the bigger sail gets so bad when reefing.

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Old 13-02-2009, 16:54   #13
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I've got a cutter rig with both sails on furlers. I added luff pads to the 110% genoa, and it performs well when rolled up to the point where it just overlaps the staysail, adding drive that the staysail alone can't provide to punch though steep waves.

That configuration, with a triple reefed main, works fine up to 50 knots when sailing on a close reach or lower. With the roller furling staysail, I've never felt the need for a storm jib, but I've never sailed in hurricane force winds. I think I'd go to bare poles in that situation, and run off, trailing warps.
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Old 13-02-2009, 20:44   #14
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I've got a cutter rig with both sails on furlers. I added luff pads to the 110% genoa, and it performs well when rolled up to the point where it just overlaps the staysail, adding drive that the staysail alone can't provide to punch though steep waves.

That configuration, with a triple reefed main, works fine up to 50 knots when sailing on a close reach or lower. With the roller furling staysail, I've never felt the need for a storm jib, but I've never sailed in hurricane force winds. I think I'd go to bare poles in that situation, and run off, trailing warps.

Hud,

Would you consider heaving-to or lying-to a sea anchor? I've been reading Storm Tactic's, you see.
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Old 13-02-2009, 22:41   #15
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Too many variables

The windspeed, the water depth, the direction of the prevailing current and the shape/period/height of the waves... the shape of the hull, the keel, the position of the mast, stays...

For my boat, if I rig the inner stay I'm considering, the size of the staysail and it's position will result in a theoretically close-to-balanced position for 40-50 kt winds, although I have no clue how the boat will handle and no idea how I'd be able to heave-to with it. I plan on getting that kind of experience next fall - deliberately looking for heavy winds to test the boat and myself further. Maybe I'll be able to fore-reach, maybe I won't, but I want to know before I head out how to rig the systems and - if possible - how they will react in extreme weather.

I think any sailor will consider every possible storm tactic depending on the exact circumstance xe finds xyrself in.
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