More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

[ol1970]

As someone who followed a similar path in life to Keith of Zatara, there is a hell of a lot I like about him, his family, and what he's created. That being said, I'm disappointed in his decision if it is truly what has been communicated on this thread...which I tend to believe is the truth. Blatant disregard for other countries rules is B.S., I would like to hear the whole story straight from the horses mouth though before I crucify him for what they are doing. On the surface, I would not have made the same call.

Having lost a family member already to COVID19, this **** is real, for a lot of people it has not hit home yet because it hasn't impacted them directly. They are in NZ and this all seems like a big to do about nothing. It is not nothing. Keith is not the model of physical fitness, and although he'd 99.97% probably survive, I'm sure he wouldn't want to be sick with this for 2 months and have lasting health problems. Heaven forbid their behavior got traced to spreading the disease, that would be an instant total loss of respect on my part. I'd probably let Privilege know that I'm not interested in the private test sail on the new 510 in France next year as well because of their association. But again, innocent until proven guilty...but doesn't look good.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by ol1970

As someone who followed a similar path in life to Keith of Zatara, there is a hell of a lot I like about him, his family, and what he's created. That being said, I'm disappointed in his decision if it is truly what has been communicated on this thread...which I tend to believe is the truth. Blatant disregard for other countries rules is B.S., I would like to hear the whole story straight from the horses mouth though before I crucify him for what they are doing. On the surface, I would not have made the same call.

Having lost a family member already to COVID19, this **** is real, for a lot of people it has not hit home yet because it hasn't impacted them directly. They are in NZ and this all seems like a big to do about nothing. It is not nothing. Keith is not the model of physical fitness, and although he'd 99.97% probably survive, I'm sure he wouldn't want to be sick with this for 2 months and have lasting health problems. Heaven forbid their behavior got traced to spreading the disease, that would be an instant total loss of respect on my part. I'd probably let Privilege know that I'm not interested in the private test sail on the new 510 in France next year as well because of their association. But again, innocent until proven guilty...but doesn't look good.

From Zatara's VLOG and from this thread, I don't think Whitaker's intentions or actions put anyone at more risk of catching COVID-19 unless where Zatara's ends up, there is a greater risk for Zatara's of catching COVID-19 than New Zealand. That is 99.9% is the case since New Zealand isreporting no or very few cases.

From the OP's original post it is easy to get the impression Whitaker was trying to sneak into a country or use deception to get entry. From what I know including from Zatara's VLOG just before they left New Zealand and the Tongan Newspaper report that is not the case.

On there most recent VLOG Whitaker was in touch with the authorities in Tonga and Fiji. Per the Fijian restrictions the entire crew got COVID-19 tests showing negative before leaving New Zealand.

I think as was mentioned Whitaker can come off as arrogant in a Dallas, Texas, red neck, ugly american kind of way, and that is what I think posters on this thread are mostly reacting to. Including that the way Whitaker comes off potentially "leaves a wake" and potentially is not as safe a sailor as he should be. I am almost certain if you raised that with Whitaker face to face he would not disagree, see the point, not be offended and maybe make an effort to "not leave a wake" and be a more safe sailor.

The flip side, as another poster pointed out, if not for people like Whitaker, the USA would still be a colony of Britain. It takes a certain amount of arrogance with only 1 day of hands on sailing instruction to load your family aboard a cruising sail boat and set off around the world.

Apparently Zatara did arrive in Tongan waters knowing that entry likely would not be permitted. I don't think we know how Whitaker's interaction with the Tongan authorities went when they arrived. After confirming entry was still not permitted, if Whitaker only asked permission for them to stay onboard and not go ashore for a couple of days to rest before heading to Fiji there is not much harm in that.

Of course do we know what Whitaker is really about and what transpires when the camera is not rolling. Of course not. That is true of all the sailing VLOGers and youtubers.

Under the same circumstances I don't think I would of set sail from New Zealand.

[BlackHeron]

"Cruisers" forum never disappoints...

[NaClyDog]

This article from a Tonga news source does not paint the Zatara actions in a very positive light.


https://matangitonga.to/2020/07/04/a...-sailing-tonga

[bcboomer]

So...They went to Tonga after they were told they couldn't, their kids were videoed, by them, doing activities that were banned in New Zealand and now they are in Fiji.
I wonder if they bothered to fill out the forms Fiji requires and submitted them more than 48 hours of arrival. Based on their prior actions, I doubt it.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Augi

The flip side, as another poster pointed out, if not for people like Whitaker, the USA would still be a colony of Britain. It takes a certain amount of arrogance with only 1 day of hands on sailing instruction to load your family aboard a cruising sail boat and set off around the world.

The difference being those Bostonians did it on their home turf. The problem with Zatara stems from a perceived "arrogance" of flouting others' sovereign territorial rights because he can. Puts him more on the British side of the spectrum than the neo-Americans.

Originally Posted by Augi

Apparently Zatara did arrive in Tongan waters knowing that entry likely would not be permitted. I don't think we know how Whitaker's interaction with the Tongan authorities went when they arrived. After confirming entry was still not permitted, if Whitaker only asked permission for them to stay onboard and not go ashore for a couple of days to rest before heading to Fiji there is not much harm in that.

According to their tracker they did stop in Minerva Reef and did have a "friendly " interaction with the Tongan authorities there. Now they are anchored off Fiji. No sign if they are welcome there or not.

[Pete7]

From the article:

The navy officer said that Tonga offers a safe haven for yachts at Minerva “depending on the weather” and yacht crews may collect food for themselves there.

So food on Minerva Reef? some reef fish perhaps, land crabs and the odd coconut, what else is there? Mac D?

Should have stayed in NZ, nothing wrong with lamb.

Pete

[OloteleMtn]

Minerva Reefs are submerged except for low tide, so it is pretty unlikely they set foot on Tongan soil or got any coconuts or land crabs. Accuracy is important, so please read and try to understand before jumping on the bandwagon to crucify a fellow sailor before all the facts are known, not just based on allegations and whether ones likes his style. Keith of Zatara claims he radioed for and received permission from outside the 12 mile limit at Minerva from the Tongan patrol prior to entering; if anyone has PROOF that is not factual, please provide it.....same for Fiji and anywhere else.

PS Lamb/sheep is gross (opinion)

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

It seems 3 arrogant self-righteous 'cruisers' decided to sail to the Soloman Islands and enter the country illegally are now in jail and have been denied bail.

GOOD!

Contrary to what Whitaker on S/V Zatara published in his blog, or vlog or whatever...the gov't of Tonga denied him entry.

Here is the latest from Tonga News

I don't like the lockdowns, but I respect the laws of a nation and the wishes of the islanders. Thus, I wait patiently in Hawaii until things reopen, or I figure out plan B.

In a previous post someone suggested we have a freedom to travel. Perhaps we do. But that does not give us the freedom to enter another country illegally.

Your right to Travel is within your Own Homelands.
Enough said!

[Redfred1]

Just to update re the three sailors illegally entering the Solomon Islands.

The crew on the yacht didn't check out of New Caledonia, The Solomon Island borders are closed to all yachts. They illegally entered the country and did not check in. One of the crew had an out of date passport. They anchored at Port Cruz and went ashore to the yacht club. The staff reported them, they were put into a hotel for 14 day quarantine.

When the quarantine was up they were taken to court and remanded in custody at Rove Jail for a week, went back to court and their remand was extended for another week and will probably appear in court this coming Monday.

There are a few yachts left here that are monitored by the authorities. The Solomon Islands have no cases of Covid-19 and are very strict with the closure of their borders.

They are already up for the cost of their hotel quarantine, fines, legal costs, and possibly more serious consequences.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

I wonder if they bothered to fill out the forms Fiji requires and submitted them more than 48 hours of arrival. Based on their prior actions, I doubt it.

The new procedures state the following;

• All applications will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis;
• All vessels must engage with a Fiji-registered yachting agent at least 5 days prior to planned departure for Fiji.
• The agent will submit the vessel’s application on their behalf for approval with the various agencies.
• Once a written approval is given, all crew on board the vessel will have to confirm negative RT-PCR test prior to departure (<48hrs). A copy of this test report has to be submitted to the agent as part of the application.

I'm betting they never got the written approval but will be allowed to stay.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Augi

From the OP's original post it is easy to get the impression Whitaker was trying to sneak into a country or use deception to get entry. From what I know including from Zatara's VLOG just before they left New Zealand and the Tongan Newspaper report that is not the case.

Please do not twist my words or attempt to derive some implied meaning to support your narrative. I typically choose my words carefully for their denotative intent. I neither said sneak into or use deception. I said there is discontinuity between his statements and those of the Tongan's. I tend to believe the Tongan's.

Here is the link to the Tongan News report.

An American sailing yacht that was denied entry to Tonga is heading to Tongan territory anyway, expecting to anchor at Minerva Reef (Tele ki Tonga and Tele ki Tokelau) tomorrow, Sunday July 5. Tonga's patrol boat VOEA Neiafu is currently at Minerva Reef, the HMAF Navy confirmed today.

The ‘Sailing Zatara’ a Privilege 585 Catamaran carrying a family of five, left New Zealand's Marsen Cove on June 29 and published a video log saying they were headed to Minerva Reef where they intended to stay for a couple of weeks.

However, Tonga's borders are closed under CoViD-19 restrictions, and the crew of the ‘Sailing Zatara’ already know this.

Now, please tell us from what you know, what part of that report "is not the case" of him entering a country after being told he would not be allowed entry?

Originally Posted by Augi

The flip side, as another poster pointed out, if not for people like Whitaker, the USA would still be a colony of Britain. It takes a certain amount of arrogance with only 1 day of hands on sailing instruction to load your family aboard a cruising sail boat and set off around the world.

I disagree...or perhaps your definition of arrogance is different than mine. Arrogance had nothing to do with the American Revolution. In fact quite the opposite. It was the arrogance of the British crown and controlling companies the colonists were rebelling against.

The bigger issue is that abuses like this is what prompts nations to enforce cruising permits and fees, limit time on location, restrict certain areas, increase entry fees, etc. after people like this move on.

Hopefully Zatara will continue westward on his "around the world" voyage. I think he'll find the authorities in SE Asia will not be as forgiving to his arrogance and disregard to authority as those in Tonga or Fiji. Maybe he'll figure it out.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

Minerva Reefs are submerged except for low tide, so it is pretty unlikely they set foot on Tongan soil or got any coconuts or land crabs. Accuracy is important, so please read and try to understand before jumping on the bandwagon to crucify a fellow sailor before all the facts are known, not just based on allegations and whether ones likes his style. Keith of Zatara claims he radioed for and received permission from outside the 12 mile limit at Minerva from the Tongan patrol prior to entering; if anyone has PROOF that is not factual, please provide it.....same for Fiji and anywhere else.

PS Lamb/sheep is gross (opinion)

Here is the link to the Tongan News report.

An American sailing yacht that was denied entry to Tonga is heading to Tongan territory anyway, expecting to anchor at Minerva Reef (Tele ki Tonga and Tele ki Tokelau) tomorrow, Sunday July 5. Tonga's patrol boat VOEA Neiafu is currently at Minerva Reef, the HMAF Navy confirmed today.

The ‘Sailing Zatara’ a Privilege 585 Catamaran carrying a family of five, left New Zealand's Marsen Cove on June 29 and published a video log saying they were headed to Minerva Reef where they intended to stay for a couple of weeks.

However, Tonga's borders are closed under CoViD-19 restrictions, and the crew of the ‘Sailing Zatara’ already know this.

Maybe i am being naive, but I am more inclined to believe this news source than a youtube busker.

This has nothing to do with his adventurous spirit (which I actually admire). But let his actions speak to the content of his character.

[OloteleMtn]

Discovery, though you are the originator of this thread, every response is not directed toward your comments; others are commenting as well, and each unique perspective leads to other comments.

[billgewater]

I have read most of the replies and there was something missing. These small Island states just have not got the facilities to deal with any pandemic. Covid 19 could decimate their populations.
Their only real defense is their isolation and it makes clear sense to me that they should use it.
As they traditionally rely on tourism, this decision would not be taken lightly and it appears that their conditions have been well promulgated. Even if not, it is the responsibility of cruisers to make sure they are aware of relevant circumstances by obtaining clearance conditions prior to setting out for these destinations.

Comments to the effect that Covid 19 is not really dangerous so it should not be a real problem assumes that they are absolutely sure that a non fatal infection leaves the infected person with no ongoing health problems. This is of genuine concern to many medical authorities.

Ultimately any government is elected (or usurps power as in some countries) and that gives them recognition as the ruling authority. So when they make a decision, by far the best thing to do is recognize it and follow those rules.
In their country, their rules, their system of justice and punishment prevail. Not yours.

Making excuses just does not wash it with me. Cruisers have responsibilities.


I just hope that these sailors behavior and the consequences are well advertised.

In Aus, where we think we have managed a Covid 19 death rate which is the envy of the rest of the world, we still have a serious outbreak in Melbourne.

The government has decided to employ fairly draconian actions including total lockdown of entire suburbs. Many very unhappy people, but many more who totally agree. Very serious fines (e.g. $1600 AUD) per event for what we would describe as sheer idiocy, arrogance or selfishness.
This is a very expensive program and many small businesses have now failed, but it was a rational decision made by knowledgeable people who could manage the shut down effectively. Tonga has not got these options so prevention is essential.
We are entitled to take this course of action and the same applies to any government, including in Tonga.