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Old 12-04-2014, 21:44   #1
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Last pictures of Primadonna

a cruising boat stopped at booby cay mayaguana a few weeks ago and explored the wreck of primadonna - the steel yacht with the french cruisers that apparently caused so much trouble in oriental some months ago.

interesting story with several pictures at ....

The Day We Found Primadonna | The Life NomadikThe Life Nomadik
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Old 12-04-2014, 23:44   #2
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Holy cow what a field day I could have had. Poetic justice.
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Old 13-04-2014, 00:26   #3
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Poetic, but not justice. They wrecked their boat and wanted to find out what happened, and they did. If I had found out the owners had wrote a guy a bad check for 3 grand after getting far more in value off their boat, I'd sell some of it and send Pat Stockwell the money, that would be poetic justice. After all, it seems Pat must be a decent fella if his community is trying to get him reimbursed through donations after the legal process failed. It seems selfish and arrogant to write up a whole blog about it, know they swindled a guy, and then not try and be a hero by doing the right thing. They have the guys address, why not try to pay it reverse?

(sorry for not quoting, I don't know what I'm doin, first time poster!)
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Old 13-04-2014, 01:00   #4
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

There are a lot of aspects of it that make me uncomfortable. First, the citing of "Maritime Law" and talk of "Salvage at Sea" are lacking a bit in accuracy. This boat wasn't abandoned, but the occupants were taken ashore by law enforcement. Whether they've been freed or will return I don't think any of us know. Second, it wasn't at sea. It was in Bahamian waters as encompassed within the Bahamas, no different than inland waters in other countries and it was pulled ashore for all purposes. Yes, in the photo surrounded by water but keel grounded and pulled as close as possible.

As to the ownership question there's also another issue. If the owners are not going to be allowed to return to the boat, the Bahamian government may well be the legal owner of the boat now.

This strikes me a bit like the old saying "Finders, Keepers" which was never something supported by either law or by personal values. If there was truly an abandoned boat at sea, as in the middle of the ocean, and if one was able to determine that the owners clearly considered it abandoned and no longer wanted anything on it, then I'd be comfortable. But I never would have been comfortable taking items from this boat in these conditions, regardless of what others were doing. If one felt like it was legal and honest to take those items, then why not ask local law enforcement? That's what you're obligated to do under "Finders, Keepers" laws. Then they make an effort to find the lawful owners, hold for the required time, and then turn it over to you. And as uncomfortable as I'd be taking the items, I sure wouldn't be posting and bragging about it on a blog.

While I'm not going to say the writers were dishonest, because I can't judge whether in their hearts they believed what they were doing was ok, I can say without question that it doesn't meet my own personal standards of honesty. Honesty isn't what you do when you are being watched or likely to get caught. It's what you do when you have the ability to do something dishonest and get by with it.

The fact the owners of Primadonna were less than honest doesn't make me feel anymore comfortable about taking the items. First, the bloggers didn't do it under the theory they were dishonest and they were doing justice. They didn't know the history at the time. Second, that still wouldn't justify it to me. As one mentioned, if that's your justification then shouldn't the spoils go to the victims of the owners?
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Old 13-04-2014, 01:16   #5
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

BnB-I had much the same reaction as you. I found the blog description of "wrecking" bot only a bit creepy but very self-serving. They boarded and took a lot of items without knowing anything about the boat other than what the fisherman told them, that it had been abandoned. I almost laughed at her idea of contacting them. And do what? Tell them they plundered their boat?
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Old 13-04-2014, 01:40   #6
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Oh dear, thieving plain and simple.

What was it I read on an RH thread the other day.... Taiwanese long liners will strip any yacht they find abandoned... seems they are not the only ones.

I believe in modern(ish) times the stripping of wrecked ships of anything of value had its origins in Cornwall.
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Old 13-04-2014, 03:03   #7
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Last pictures of Primadonna

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Holy cow what a field day I could have had. Poetic justice.

Remember salty , tolerance. Just like you're mates RH, there a personal tragedy behind that story.


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Old 13-04-2014, 03:04   #8
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

The boat may be aground, but it is certainly not a 'wreck'. It even appears to have an anchor set. This is theft, in spirit and I am quite sure in law too. I hope if and when I run aground and have to leave the boat for a while some thieving b***ard doesn't make off with several thousand pounds worth of equipment while I'm gone. Whether or not the owners are honest themselves (they appear not) is irrelevant. What these people have done is no better. I'm disgusted.

As an aside, I hope that the boat is salvaged. It would be a sorry waste for a good sea-boat like this just to be left to rust. It was apparently built by Chantiers Meta as a Joshua derivative (the story is here). I think it's almost attractive, it certainly has an appealing rugged look.

The good Samaritan would have it towed off the reef, and, if the owners can't afford the salvage costs, sell it, recover your salvage costs plus some, pay off any 'creditors' of the owners with interest, and give the rest back to the owners. But perhaps I'm too honest...
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Old 13-04-2014, 03:05   #9
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Last pictures of Primadonna

There is no such thing as wrecking , it's called thieving. Nor as stated in that grossly mis leading blog , is that finding something on the high seas( which this wasn't ) is yours. , it's not. See salvage law. The owner retains ownership at all times, you are merely entities to compensation for retrieving it.

I hope these bloggers are tracked down and prosecuted. Feeding on a personal tradegy, how CF

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Old 13-04-2014, 03:28   #10
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Couldn't agree more Dave. This is way out of order.
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Old 13-04-2014, 03:53   #11
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Agree, that blog was creepy and the white trash stealing from the boat tried to justify it by saying "wrecking" has a long tradition in the Bahamas.
(So does drug smuggling, does the tradition make it legal, morally or otherwise.)

Hope the thiefs choke on the stolen goods..
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Old 13-04-2014, 04:11   #12
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

While part of me just wants to sit back and go, "heh, karma's a bitch ain't it dude," legally what they did was wrong. From a human interest perspective, I have no sympathy for Pascal as I feel he got what he had coming to him. You reap what you sow and all that. But that still doesn't make what the "salvagers" (and I use that term loosely) did right. Even if they legally could salvage the vessel, by them salvaging it, they would become legally responsible for the wreck and any subsequent damage it caused. Not an enviable position to be in.

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Old 13-04-2014, 04:33   #13
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Generally the Bahamians will take all the good stuff first. They pretty much reckon it their birthright and have an easy way to obtain local title to any boats they salvage.
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Old 13-04-2014, 05:46   #14
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

the main thing that was strange to me is that there was a working cell phone found . The former occupants must have left in a hurry. beyond that I think that boat will be a pile of rust in a year. and has 0 chance of ever sailing again
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Old 13-04-2014, 05:53   #15
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Re: Last pictures of Primadonna

Quote:
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Generally the Bahamians will take all the good stuff first. They pretty much reckon it their birthright and have an easy way to obtain local title to any boats they salvage.

A crime doesn't justify another crime

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