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Old 07-04-2010, 17:18   #31
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well, if you're only worried about three criteria...

Fast: certainly
Roomy: undeniably
Stable: arguably
Ugly: absolutely

...then by all means purchase a multihull.
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Old 07-04-2010, 17:22   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Fast: certainly
Roomy: undeniably
Stable: arguably
Ugly: absolutely

...then by all means purchase a multihull.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
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Old 07-04-2010, 17:51   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Fast: certainly
Roomy: undeniably
Stable: arguably
Ugly: absolutely

...then by all means purchase a multihull.
Stability of catamarans is hard to match.

In both positions ;-)

Unsinkability.

No ballast = no waste of sail area to 'propel' the ballast! We end up with a faster boat or with one that does not need huge sail areas.

I really do not know. I have sailed both. I love good cats, I hate bad ones. I find some pretty, some ugly. Not much difference with monoes!

b.
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Old 07-04-2010, 17:57   #34
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Bash,

Coming from a power boat background you have finally talked me into a cat. thanks

I happen to see the beauty in the practicalities of cats without being bound by sailing tradition.

Fast :certainly
Roomy: undeniably
Stable: urguably

Re : Ugly - I like many of the practicallies and thus see beauty
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:20   #35
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I have been caught in a 60 knot squall in my cat. VERY scary cause I couldn't see! I had to get a dive mask it was blowing so hard. Have since put put a windscreen, I am not sure it will help, the rain was pretty much vertical. I will, however, make it easier to breath!

I agree with the original post to a significant degree. You don't get much sense of sailing in a larger cruising cat. No healing, not the same sounds, not the same feels. (Learned to sail by race crewing on a large mono). If you want the traditional feel of a sailing, monohull. A monhull will also give you a more solid feel in choppy sea conditions. They tend to cut through the chop. The cat tends to skip above them more so and you get more agitated movement.

Cruising however in most conditions is more "comfortable" in the cat. It is a PAIN to be healed for 24 hours or more. No such worries in the cat. Take a book, a drink, put on the auto pilot, lay on the tramp and just watch the sea go by. Truly GREAT! My wife wants to get a sail board so she can feel that exhilaration of sailing, but she wouldn't trade the comforts of the cat for anything.
The answer: TRIMARAN. Near-level, and the 5-10 degrees of heel gives you a good feel for how hard she's being pressed. When a gust hits a displacement mono she lays over, but hull speed is hull speed. A tri leans over just a little, and hardens-up against the thrust of the sail to turn that wind power into acceleration.

I sailed monohulls for 20+ years before I went over to prefer multihulls. Have chartered and test-sailed cruising cats,and owned a tri since 2001.... IMHO nothing sails better than a tri. Yes monos have advantages, so do tris and cats. If superb sailing is what you seek, go trimaran and you will be spoiled.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:53   #36
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When to reef a Lagoon 380

The manufacturer states in his manual to put the first reef in the main at 25 knots en the second at 30 knots. The foresail must be reduced in 35 knots as well.
The charter co advises to put the first reef in at 18 knots (apparent) and the second at 25 knots. Or visa versa, forgot this.

Lagoon seems to advise against a full foresail without a main (manual not clear due to poor English (or my understanding of it); the charter co does not object.

We did sail with a full rig in (really steady) 21-23 knots of wind (80-90 degrees true)and felt completely safe zooming along at up to 9 knots (top was 10.1). We put in the first reef at 25 knots and maintained speed. Putting in the second reef when getting near the 30 knot mark failed (tangled reefing line) and we dropped the main (another advantage of cats: the main drops perfectly in a couple of seconds) completely; this was the end of the fun, speed was reduced to 5 knots under full jib.

Note: we were on a two week island hopping vacation and not really 'cruising'; I do understand all comments about reefing early when on long trips; ours were 40 mile island hopping (ANU to SVG) day trips.

My biggest concern (as a first time cat sailor) was that the boat never showed any signs of being overpowered, the main stayed in a good shape. The only thing that happened was that the leeward shroud became a little slack, not uncommon I think; have seen this on mono's as well. The Lagoon did not seem to object; still the charter co suggested to reef at 18 knots. We did this on our last crossing (windward side of SVG) but it took some of the fun away: just 7-8 knots in 21 knots wind with first reef in.

When and how do you reef? On a mono it's easy, with too much sail up the boat heels over too much and eventually rounds up by itself.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:59   #37
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snip
When and how do you reef? On a mono it's easy, with too much sail up the boat heels over too much and eventually rounds up by itself.
Reef early, reef for the gusts. Play it safe. Only (sponsored) racers can afford to take the risks and discover the limits.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:28   #38
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I sailed a 35ft cat from Curacao to Cartagena. With all the modern weather forecasting everyone seems so keen to rely on, we left in a 'weather window' and still had 50 kts and 40ft seas around Baranquilla (sp?).

We surfed down a lot of waves, and were pooped dozens of times. I think we managed to reach 17kts at one point and dipped the port bow (scary moment!) We had about 3sqft of jib out, that was all. The biggest problem was the rogue waves that would slam us from the stbd side every 20 mins or so and round us to stbd. The dipping bow was a result of surfing down a wave and getting hit by a rogue wave from the side at the same time.

I met people in Polynesia who had done the same crossing in monohulls. One of them had suffered a knockdown so bad they lost 2 people overboard. There was absolutely no chance of doing an MOB procedure to pick them up again as the boat was half full of water and the engine air intake was submerged. Sailing upwind half-full of water against 40ft seas missing 2 crew into 40-50kts was not an option. Fortunately for all concerned the MOBs were washed up ashore and alive.

Regarding 'feeling' safe and stable in a cat - do bear in mind that a mono will heel further in a gust so spilling the excess wind and giving you fair warning, a cat won't do either of these things so you need to be really aware of the aparrent wind speed and not just stay content to go faster and faster even though it 'feels ok'
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:15   #39
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We sailed a leopard 47 from the keys to north carolina and were 200 nautical miles off land when we were hit by 50 knot N.W at night. Put it this way I was praying in my cabin. The sounds coming from that cat were something else. But we survived and the boat was unscathed. Would of been interesting to be on a monohull with the same conditions to compare.
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:33   #40
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An experienced multihull sailor knows that the most dangerous point of sail is runnning downwind in a bad blow. Equipment to slow down the boat under these conditions should be considered an essential safety item.
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Old 08-04-2010, 06:52   #41
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We had equipment onboard to slow the boat down but took a tactical decision not to deploy it as we were close to shore (within 5 miles) and did not want to run the risk of not being able to retrieve it.
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:25   #42
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Being so close to shore with all that wind was the problem. Why didn't you turn for deeper water?

Bash I have seen some pretty ugly monos with proud owners have a wonderful time right there on S.F Bay. So what's your point about ugly? Ugly comes in all shapes, and sizes.........i2f
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:37   #43
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That would have meant going beam-on to 40ft seas - what would you choose?
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:44   #44
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I wasn't there, so I asked. Thanks for giving me an answer.......i2f
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:53   #45
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<pedant mode>
You knew that we were in 50kts with 40ft seas, that we didn't deploy any sea anchors or drogues, had only a tiny amount of jib out and that we got pooped a lot. Did you imagine we were doing anything other than running? In which case any course change would have meant going beam on to 40ft seas.
</pedant mode>
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