Lagoon 380 - Post-Charter Review

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by sigmasailor

If you've been out there in choppy weather and made pictures or videos I'm sure you have to agree that experiencing the waves first hand is not represented in your movies or pictures. I have made many a 'big wave' picture (a lot on mono's but recently some cat pictures too) that do not look spectacular at home (we were in 35 knots). I always try and am always disappointed about the results. The video on the forum shows waves a lot bigger than on our own video's; I guess there was a lot more wind than 35 knots.

Yep. It's not even close to reality in the photos (or video).

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

The moderators have made this quite clear in the past. ANYONE can post in ANY forum. Period.....

My question to a moderators stands

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

It's because a camera can only render 3D into a two-dimensional image. You'll notice the same thing in pictures taken on the side of a sheer mountain wall, looking straight down thousands of feet. For all the obvious drama, it still looks unimpressive. It just doesn't translate well in a two dimensional format.

IYIYI YIYI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not me that!!!!!!!!

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

It's because a camera can only render 3D into a two-dimensional image. You'll notice the same thing in pictures taken on the side of a sheer mountain wall, looking straight down thousands of feet. For all the obvious drama, it still looks unimpressive. It just doesn't translate well in a two dimensional format.

Oh Tao...What would you know about cameras?

PS; Multis suck and Monos rule! Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

[YourOldNemesis]

I got moderated for saying this in an apparently offensive way, but it's still worth saying:

Originally Posted by me

I always get the impression that Americans are unaccustomed to ocean swell as those on the east coast can get all the way from NY to Tierra Del Fuego without hitting proper open water. Those on the west coast have to head to Polynesia/Galapagos before they get an idea of what ocean swell actually looks like. 8-10ft seems pretty standard for the Atlantic, it is normally a bit smaller in the Pacific, but not much.

[imagine2frolic]

I can see why the mods spoke up. Just exactly where do you sail that makes the rest of us weenies?........i2f

[sarafina]

yeah... those 12 to 15 foot swells off the gate any given day of the week are just a fake.. and the reason they call the trip north *the baja bash* is cause Bash does it so often... and the California sailed in the gate last month with a 12' stump instead of its usual carbon monster of a mast cause them pacific waves are so small ya hardly notice em... yeah, yeah, that's the ticket...

and Christian? quit rabble rousing! like we need more of the rabble roused in here!!

; -}

[Joli]

Cmon now, I haven't said anything and I certainly did not call you an oaf. You called yourself an oaf.

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

My question to a moderators stands

[sandy daugherty]

We've worn this one out folks. In summary:
Any two boats can be compared on a variety of measures to achieve equally meaningless results. It does not matter how many hulls they have, how big they are, or how much they cost. It is immaterial whether they are good at what they were designed to do, whether they are stout or lite, carbon costly or continentally stylish.

These comparisons are meaningless unless two people can agree on the importance of those criteria.

Isn't it strange that only the owners (or wannabe buyers) of any one specific make and model of boat can ever agree on what's important in a boat? It's as if the boat found them, and educated them about what matters! But if that is the case, then why would the people of other boat prusuasions find it so important to prove that their wisdom is greater, their experience more valid?

I wonder if this isn't just like children arguing in a school lot about whose father can beat another? Fathers rarely care to prove anything. I guess boats don't either.

So what we are left with, in the last analysis, is childish egos, right? Let's see a show of hands from those who are here for interesting information; then for those who came to prove their superior judgement, and finally from those who just like to start fights. Then lets think about who we want to respond to on a forum l;ike this.

[downunder]

Sandy

Whilst there are some negegatives on this thread there are many useful points raised it is good for someone new to sailing (not boating) to see both sides discussed.

Some people get uptite in person or on the web and others keep their cool. I am not sure your post will help.

Lets get back on track.

Kashmir cat had a great post for someone looking for a cat in the meets and greets on this forum

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...g-38368-2.html


QUOTE "I think there are several reasons a catamaran would have been easier for me and my wife to start out with. My wife too, was somewhat apprehensive about sailing and it certainly wasn't her dream to go off into the wild wet yonder. It was mine. I learned very quickly that if I was to live my dream with my wife along side me, then my number one concern was her comfort. Although she is quite adventuresome and always up for a challenge, I knew that one or two bad experiences on the boat would be the end of her participating in my dream and the beginning of our nightmare.. "To love, honor and obey" be damned. She would leave me or the boat or both if push came to shove.

There are a total of four situations in which your wife may become close to being outside her comfort zone. These include, in no specific order: docking the boat, anchoring the boat, sailing the boat, and living on the boat. Pretty much anything to do with the boat. I'm not trying to be facetious or a sexist pig, I'm just telling you what I know from experience.

1. DOCKING THE BOAT. I understand that you are a pilot, so you will soon learn that docking a boat is child's play compared to landing a plane. However, your first mate, soul mate, and chief line wrangler is going to be terrified coming into the dock. She has an important job to do and doesn't want to screw up. She is also relying on your piloting skills and does not have total control of the situation. To complicate matters even further, there is always a crowd of onlookers present, silently judging your seamanship and the happiness of your marriage, so the pressure is on.
A catamaran with two engines 20 feet apart is probably the easiest type of boat to dock. It doesn't need any speed to maintain steerage like a monohull and it can literally pivot 360 degrees in it's own foot print. No more roaring up to the slip like Captain Ron.

2. ANCHORING THE BOAT. Anchorages can be quite rolly due to divergent wind, waves, and boat traffic. There is nothing that will kill the romance of your first night anchored out in your new boat than "anchor sickness". Catamarans don't roll as bad as monohulls and because of their shallow draft, you may be able to tuck up closer to shore away from the waves.

3. SAILING THE BOAT. Catamarans don't heel over like monohulls, and their wide beam and high freeboard give the neccessary illusion of total safety to an anxious crew member. Also, avoid at all costs discussing the two stable positions of a catamaran in your wife's presence. In other words don't talk to any monohull sailors while in the company of your wife.

4. LIVING ON THE BOAT. Does your wife love camping in a cramped tent, boiling freeze dried MRE (meals ready to eat) over a sputtering alcohol stove for weeks at a time? I didn't think so. Neither do I. A catamaran gives you the luxury of SPACE! And because of that additional space not found in a monohull of the same length, you can fill it with every nick nac, paddy wac, washer/dryer, shave ice maker, stairmaster, etc. you can imagine. Now some cats can't take the added weight well and their water line disappears along with their sailing performance. I won't name brand names, but all I know is that our catamaran could probably carry the space shuttle without a problem.

As to your inquiries about big waves, rough weather, and corresponding extreme offshore safety gear, this is all I have to say about that: DON"T BE A TALKING ABOUT THAT STUFF IN FRONT OF YOUR WIFE! ARE YOU CRAZY?
Seriously, I have'nt had or do I plan to have the (pleasure?) of being in really rough weather in the catamaran. The largest seas she has been in were 6-8 footers in the Florida Strait. The boat handled them well but the captain did get sea sick. My wife and our dogs were fine, however.

In short: The key to a successful long term, loving relationship with your wife and boat is this: For your first adventures, go short distance island hopping preferably some place warm with plenty of islands like the Bahamas. Wait for calm seas even if you end up motoring a lot. Absolutely no extended off shore or over nights. And most of all: WATCH THE WEATHER! Invest in a weather fax, XM receiver, SSB, whatever. They are worth their weight in gold. And, DON'T BE IN A HURRY! The most asked question I get from non sailers besides the "Pirates of the Caribbean" inquiry, is: How big of boat do you need to go sailing in the Caribbean? I always answer this way: You can sail the Caribbean in a 10 foot dinghy as long as you wait for good weather, it will eventually come. . Good luck to you, your wife, and new life. Erik "

End QUOTE.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by sarafina

and Christian? quit rabble rousing! like we need more of the rabble roused in here!!

; -}

Sara, I like anyone who uses the term "Rabble Rousing" ! I'm gonna shy away from this thread though...I've roused my last rabble here...

[hummingway]

Can I put my hand down now?

[bigpuff]

great vid great crew great trip ,it does get a tad ruff coming that way the boat looked like it was handling it very well well done

[YourOldNemesis]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

I can see why the mods spoke up.

no you can't, I had to remove that bit.

Just exactly where do you sail that makes the rest of us weenies?........i2f

That's not really the point, my point is that if all you ever do is sail up and down the coast, or within 100 miles of land, then you have no idea that, for example, normal ocean swell is about 8ft.

Originally Posted by sarafina

yeah... those 12 to 15 foot swells off the gate any given day of the week are just a fake.. and the reason they call the trip north *the baja bash* is cause Bash does it so often... and the California sailed in the gate last month with a 12' stump instead of its usual carbon monster of a mast cause them pacific waves are so small ya hardly notice em... yeah, yeah, that's the ticket...

... and again, if you haven't sailed a couple of oceans, then you may have seen some big waves, but you have no idea that a large swell is normal when you get properly offshore. Compare your (sarafina) experience with that of downunder's:

Originally Posted by downunder

The largest seas she has been in were 6-8 footers in the Florida Strait. The boat handled them well but the captain did get sea sick.

You have so much good cruising available without an ocean passage, that lots of you have never been on one, consequently when you do the swell is a bit of a surprise.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

You have so much good cruising available without an ocean passage, that lots of you have never been on one, consequently when you do the swell is a bit of a surprise.

I was surprised at the size of the sea 50 miles W of Marco Island in only 15 knots of wind.