Is It Time to Stop Sailing?

[scotty c-m]

Chotu. Good on you to see that you have to do something to address your problem.

Find a really good allergist. A friend has been to several before she found one that really helps her. With treatment, her symptoms are significantly better. That may also be the case for you. Perhaps you are already doing this.

All of us are faced with the changes of time, so more so than others. And yes, we sometimes have to step back from the things we love. A traditional older boat, like the monohull you describe, is a mold magnet. It may not be right for you any longer. Can the Catamaran be fixed and then be a "trigger-free environment" for you?

I'm sure finances play a part in your decision. I can't imagine needing $200,000 to fix up the Cat. I just don't have that kind of money. Perhaps it is best to get out from such an expensive boat and go into something with a smaller financial foot print? That's something only you can determine.

Your situation really reverberates with me, and I can see that it does for others as well. I'm 70 now, and with the various health issues that come with my age, I wonder how long I can keep my 40' sailboat going. I took a friend out sailing today. He's several years older than me. Despite being a long-time sailor, I could tell that it was a lot for him to handle even a 3 hour daysail. Yes, these choices come to all of us.

Regardless of your decision, I wish you well. Which ever path you take, I hope you focus not on the loss of what you once did, but on the joy of having done it. May you look with anticipation and pleasure on the things that you are still able to do.

Or as the song says: "Spend your money and don't look back. 'Cause I've never seen a hearse with a luggage rack."

[RSB333]

I had an acquaintance through the Chamber of Commerce whose business was air filtration systems that would remove all airborn allergens. His small unit would handle a veeberth compartment. Sorry I've lost touch with him, but you may find it on the internet.
Best of luck in your tough decision.
RSB

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mabowers

Have you seen an allergist to see if there is a treatment for the allergy?

This.



You should not be trying to figure this out without help from a good allergist. You won't know whether or not you can remove the problem on one or the other boat, without analyzing your allergies in detail, AND analysing the allergens on both boats. Without the results of that work, you are shooting in the dark.

[zengirl]

You don't have to give it all up. What I would do as previously said, sell the boats. Relax your mind. Buy an RV again. And when you get the urge to sail, hop on someone else's boat and crew.

[boatman61]

From what I remember.. pre wonder product days..
The best way to get rid of mold was wiping down with vinegar.. get a hand spray bottle with a mist setting and use that for the inaccessible spaces.
Most of todays crap cause more problems than they solve.

[bushytales]

Hi, frankly, I’m sitting here trying to work out what repair work is needed to spend US$200k. I am recently retired from building catamarans in Qld Aust - we always used epoxy in the construction and fortunately never had sensitivity problems.
We could build an entirely new boat for that sort of money...
Tell me, how big is the catamaran, what repairs are you wanting undertaken, where abouts is the boat? I might be able to put together a small working crew of cat builders and undertake the work for you - guess it depends on the factors I have asked about herein...cheers from Jeff

[Luckyknot]

I would not recommend using ozone. An ionizer may help but be sure it does not exceed the voltage necessary to create ozone. We are currently trialing a setup in an air handler that is showing positive results for remidiating organism growth. The company that makes this also makes a smaller residential unit that you put into the airstream of your home system. I think it's about $200.

There are a lot of varying results and opinions about ionizers. I think that many are bogus (or downright dangerous because they create ozone) but a company with a proper group of engineers making a good product has shown some promise in the technology. As I said, we are still testing the concept in my hospital so I have no definitive answers but so far its appears to be doing a good enough job that we want to get a bigger unit installed.

Also, They don't use that much energy. I don't have the numbers on me but that is of course a concern when it comes to living off grid in any capacity. The company we are trialing is Global Plasma Solutions.

[BandB]

One comment on allergists. Your condition is extreme so I'd highly recommend an allergy center that is part of a teaching university hospital, not just an allergist. The average allergist you find around town does a test, prescribes shots and hopes but often the results are dismal. Yours is beyond the point that allergy shots are likely to help but only an expert can advise you. Many years ago I tried them with two allergists but was told by the center I went to that I could try all I wanted but they were never likely to help me. I went to Duke University.

Allergy tests have major weaknesses. First, they're far more likely to show things you've recently been exposed to. So, a lot of false negatives as you've avoided things you know you're allergic too.

They keys ultimately for most with severe allergies are 1-avoidance/preventative, and 2-rapid and strong treatment when exposed. I'm sure by now you've learned your body extremely well. The other thing is to never think perhaps it won't affect me this time or to think it's just a little bit. I use to think maybe I'd outgrown one but never happened. I walked into our corporate office not long ago and smelled paint. I immediately took double Benadryl. I was told, there's no paint. Well, they looked and they found painting two floors below. They couldn't believe I smelled that. Now, mild paint, I can do ok with if heavily medicated.

My sensitivity has let to policies at work as well as home too, such as no wearing of perfume or heavy fragrances of any kind. Amazing how many people have thanked me as they'd previously worked beside someone who marinated in perfume but they were too nice to say anything. I jokingly say marinated in it, but what happens is one becomes use to the smell so has to keep adding more and more. Meanwhile other people haven't developed any tolerance for it.

Plug in room deodorizers are among the worst things and when they're unplugged and cast aside, even worse. To me, clean is absence of smell, not using one smell to mask another.

[hellosailor]

"The company that makes this also makes a smaller residential unit that you put into the airstream of your home system. I think it's about $200."
Those are typically UV-C lights. Used to sterilize everything from fishponds to drinking water and hospital rooms in recent years. UV-C literally destroys DNA so it kills anything and everything. And in a home AC setting, that's pretty effective at keeping new crud from growing in the ducts, and killing crud in the air.
But on a boat? Won't help unless you've got a pressurized airflow to work with and that pretty much means it won't do the job.

Weavis' idea of going to a metal boat is a sound one. Or even another FRP boat, with newer construction and less hidden wood, often unpainted and damp so it breeds mold. You CAN kill mold and mold spores. Live steam, quaternary cleaners, ozone, there are companies that do mold remediation in homes after flooding and they can eliminate it from almost anything. But on a boat, where the may be raw wood and inaccessible places where condensation is going to form and mold will re-grow...that's an ongoing serious battle.
I don't know how a cat needs $200k in "work" but no one is going to just volunteer to come do that. Either the OP ante's up for a professional yard or sells it as is, which may mean a big loss. But that extensive a DIY project just doesn't seem very likely if it needs materials that are toxic to him. Maybe with a moon suit and positive outside airflow and decontamination procedures, but that's also one hell of a way to work.

Selling both are starting with a boat that is less likely to harbor mold certainly seems like the most certain way to get past these problems.

[JPA Cate]

Chotu probably meant hiring out the labor, in the US, would run to $200k. Maybe that was a pessimistic evaluation.

Chotu, if you follow up on B and B's suggestion about a teaching hospital, remember that to them you are an experimental subject. Be sure and pry into the possible downsides of their recommendations.

Ann

[hellosailor]

A good point about teaching hospitals, Ann. While I understand and endorse the concept of teaching hospitals (and med school clinics) there's always the problem that when a student is told to perform a procedure...they're not an experienced physician, they sometimes will make mistakes that the patient will not enjoy. Whether to use one very much depends on how invasive or complex the entire experience is going to be.
Allergy testing, yes. Neurosurgery...not so much.(G)

[Luckyknot]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"The company that makes this also makes a smaller residential unit that you put into the airstream of your home system. I think it's about $200."
Those are typically UV-C lights. Used to sterilize everything from fishponds to drinking water and hospital rooms in recent years. UV-C literally destroys DNA so it kills anything and everything. And in a home AC setting, that's pretty effective at keeping new crud from growing in the ducts, and killing crud in the air.
But on a boat? Won't help unless you've got a pressurized airflow to work with and that pretty much means it won't do the job.

Weavis' idea of going to a metal boat is a sound one. Or even another FRP boat, with newer construction and less hidden wood, often unpainted and damp so it breeds mold. You CAN kill mold and mold spores. Live steam, quaternary cleaners, ozone, there are companies that do mold remediation in homes after flooding and they can eliminate it from almost anything. But on a boat, where the may be raw wood and inaccessible places where condensation is going to form and mold will re-grow...that's an ongoing serious battle.

I'm not talking about UV-C. They like to call it plasma. It's an air ionizer. The theory is that it puts a charge on particles that creates an attraction to opposite charges, causing bigger bits of particulate in the air to form which ultimately makes it either easier to catch in the air filter or heavy enough to fall. It supposedly also controls mold and other nasties.

You are correct about needing ducting or some other clever form of air control. This could be something worth adding if the cat gets restored and the OP wanted to put in central air (which alone could help control allergens). It definitely won't eliminate mold entirely given the environment but it may help.

[wolfgal]

i do hope you find solutions from the cf community (fingers crossed), ...however, after reading your reaction to epoxy and what others, and especially what Wifey B wrote (oh dear), i'm more and more convinced that a nice metal sailboat might be a viable option and possibly a problem-solver (to a great degree, anyhow).

good things in any case!


wolfie

[bensolomon]

This will be mostly about the allergies, as that is my expertise, as a pulmonary and critical care physician. Far more skilled sailors and shipwrights than I on this forum.

Do not underestimate the threat to your respiratory status. Most people think that they will be able to tell when they're having a problem and get out of the environment. There are those times when the reaction is sudden and severe and there is no ability to call for help. Your desire to remediate the situation is understandably strong. If you were going to spend money, I would leave the remediation to the professionals and to remove yourself from potential fatal harm.

I'm going to make some recommendations below, however, you should go see a physician and be placed on some allergy medications while you implement the changes that I'm going to describe. This will keep you safer from having a potentially fatal airway emergency. You might also consider getting an EpiPen after consultation with your physician and carry it with you.

The fix for this is twofold. As an MD, we tend to be focused on the result or symptoms of a particular disease and quite often don't look at the cause. I believe you are having one of these situations. These allergies have occurred later in life and therefore you, physiologically, are in an inflammatory state. The most common cause of this nowadays, is diet. We now know that gluten is placed in almost all foods to create a craving for the food. Therefore, I would recommend you move to a gluten-free diet or as much as you can. Secondly, shift to mostly a plant-based diet if you can. Limit your animal protein to eggs, fish, and organic chicken.

Allergen avoidance is very important for obvious reasons. However, implementing change to reduce inflammatory characteristics of your own body will make a huge difference in how you feel.

I have purposely talk in generalities as I don't want to prescribe medical advice in this forum. to answer your original question, you will not have to give up sailing. You will have to make some lifestyle modifications as described, and seek appropriate medical Care.

if you were my patient, I would maximize your anti-allergy regimen with medications to control your symptoms while we alter your lifestyle as described. Once you adjusted to the lifestyle modifications, then I would peel back the medications one at a time to see your response. That should give you a template if you choose to go this path. As I stated before, you should not have to give up sailing because of this.

I do apologize for the verbosity of my response. I wish you all the best and keep a positive attitude. That, above all else, is the most important.

Ben

[tkeithlu]

Chotu, everyone who has read your sad post hopes you find a medical or environmental solution that will let you continue to feel water under your hull. Everyone over about 50 also feels "There I go, it's going to happen to me someday..."

Please face this challenge head on rather than letting it destroy part of you. Get to that allergist, go test other epoxies, breath in other boats, and tell us all your story as it happens. We'll all cheer for you.