Idiot Needs Thunderstorm Advice ( Please )

[cheoah]

I think avoiding being on decks is probably a pretty good policy. At sea, use whatever squall tactics you would use for a short lived storm of unknown strength and go below or hunker under dodger. Agree with others that you should do it sooner than later. I have blown out light air sails and clawed sails down with lightning right on top of us so I do sail changes with alacrity these days.

For inland cruising, I do most of my travel during the early part of the day. I do not like to stand there holding a steel wheel while navigating the confines of the ICW or similar so I try to be at anchor. On waterways like lake Okeechobee or PAmlico Sound, if I can get well out of the "channel" I have dropped anchor in severe thunderstorms. I feel quite safe down below, but I usually tell family to hang out in their bunks, which they do gladly and entertain themselves. Again, I do this early, so as to not be handling ground tackle in 40 kts with lightning... or whatever.

Find out what the weather pattern is like there and plan around it. You'll have a blast, and the storms will make you feel pretty cozy down below, although sometimes a little steamy... Perhaps other posters are right with their cavalier approach, I certainly am not as alarmed as I once was about it

Have a blast-
csh

[Bill Burgette]

Auxiliary Sail .6% Six out of 1000
Multi-hull sail .5% Five out of 1000
Trawlers .3% Three out of 1000
Sail Only .2% Two out of 1000
Cruisers .1% One out of 1000
Runabouts .02% Two out of 10,000

I saw these statistics in a post last year or two. They are from a BoatUS insurance study over a five year period. I'm a logical person but these figures made little sense to me. Multihulls were more than twice as likely to be hit as monohulls and auxiliary sailboats (motorsailers ?) were three times more likely. I realize that the list is done on percentages but it's close to being ranked by number of boats. Least number, motorsailers, are the most likely to be hit and runabouts (lots more of them) the least likely.

If lightning were to strike indiscriminately the list, and correlating percentages would make a little more sense and that's what I believe happens. Lightning just strikes a place and not a boat. If you're in that place......you're hit. I believe that a boat makes very little difference. In other words, lightning is just as likely to hit within a hundred feet of you as it is to hit your mast.

Proper grounding may lessen the chances of hull damage and although I don't know for a fact, lightning, like microwaves, does not like to turn corners. You may be able to coax the lightning strike to kinda find a better way to than ground than through a thru hull. Electronics are going to die. Keep a handheld GPS in the microwave oven (Faraday cage) to assist in getting you home. This is all speculation but it makes some sense to me.

[Safari38LH]

Originally Posted by Bill Burgette

I saw these statistics in a post last year or two. They are from a BoatUS insurance study over a five year period. I'm a logical person but these figures made little sense to me. Multihulls were more than twice as likely to be hit as monohulls and auxiliary sailboats (motorsailers ?) were three times more likely. I realize that the list is done on percentages but it's close to being ranked by number of boats. Least number, motorsailers, are the most likely to be hit and runabouts (lots more of them) the least likely.

If lightning were to strike indiscriminately the list, and correlating percentages would make a little more sense and that's what I believe happens. Lightning just strikes a place and not a boat. If you're in that place......you're hit. I believe that a boat makes very little difference. In other words, lightning is just as likely to hit within a hundred feet of you as it is to hit your mast.

Proper grounding may lessen the chances of hull damage and although I don't know for a fact, lightning, like microwaves, does not like to turn corners. You may be able to coax the lightning strike to kinda find a better way to than ground than through a thru hull. Electronics are going to die. Keep a handheld GPS in the microwave oven (Faraday cage) to assist in getting you home. This is all speculation but it makes some sense to me.

Auxiliary sailboat = sailboat with engine

Any sailboat with an inboard

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Bill Burgette

I saw these statistics in a post last year or two. They are from a BoatUS insurance study over a five year period. I'm a logical person but these figures made little sense to me. Multihulls were more than twice as likely to be hit as monohulls and auxiliary sailboats (motorsailers ?) were three times more likely. I realize that the list is done on percentages but it's close to being ranked by number of boats. Least number, motorsailers, are the most likely to be hit and runabouts (lots more of them) the least likely.

If lightning were to strike indiscriminately the list, and correlating percentages would make a little more sense and that's what I believe happens. Lightning just strikes a place and not a boat. If you're in that place......you're hit. I believe that a boat makes very little difference. In other words, lightning is just as likely to hit within a hundred feet of you as it is to hit your mast.

Proper grounding may lessen the chances of hull damage and although I don't know for a fact, lightning, like microwaves, does not like to turn corners. You may be able to coax the lightning strike to kinda find a better way to than ground than through a thru hull. Electronics are going to die. Keep a handheld GPS in the microwave oven (Faraday cage) to assist in getting you home. This is all speculation but it makes some sense to me.

Those stats are useless unless you account for time spent in storm. Otherwise all they reflect is relative popularity of type of boat, and time spent in bad weather.

[noelex 77]

The risk of being hit by lightening is reasonably low. We were hit while at anchor a couple of years ago, so I hope the risk of being hit twice is very low. The hit has made me a bit more wary of lightening , but I braved the elements yesterday to take this photo.

[Mark Johnson]

You can expect the rig and hull to remain basically intact after a strike: Only with a proper, "all copper" lightning ground, (not cables or chains dangling in the water, which are WAY too small in surface area, and VERY poor conductors). Copper has 10X the conductivity! Even then, you may be killed by side strikes, which can be minimized a bit by ALSO bonding the entire rig and large metal to the grounding plate. Most boats don't have this system built in, but it IS the smart move nonetheless.

If caught in a bad thunderstorm, you would be better off waiting it out down below, with the sails down, hove to, or perhaps motoring @ low RPMs. The odds of a strike are statistically higher with sails up.

If it is popping REALLY close, as it has with us, your best odds of "surviving" a direct strike is: down below, WITH BODY DRY, away from large metal or chainplates, and crouched down on the balls of your feet. (This is what they advise for those stuck on a golf coarse). Sounds weird, but lightning is the #1 killer of ALL natural disasters.

I have been at the wheel out of necessity, on a NARROW section of the ICW, with 45 knots/blinding rain, and lightning popping within 200', over and over! I had on sea boots and rubber gloves, but standing 2' behind the mast, I doubt that I would've survived a direct hit! The rubber gloves are good for "emotional reasons" if nothing else.

The other point: BE LUCKY! With lightning, like many aspects of cruising, all we can do is improve our odds, as it ultimately does what it wants to.

Having said that, there is ONE thing that is ALWAYS true... If it hits you, "IT WILL GO TO GROUND". I've given a direct path, that doesn't require that it go through the hull.

Mark

[Mark Johnson]

"00" cable to 3/4" bronze bolt on copper plate.

[capn_billl]

I was on a boat hit by lightening just a couple of years ago. Clear day, a strange large irregular object appeared on radar and was coming closer, then another, then another we decided to stop fishing and head in before whatever it was arrived. Too late another appeared on the other side of us we wre boxed in. Thats when we realized we were seeing hailstones, and lightening on the radar. We decided to move, ... full throttle and a sharp turn when we felt the static. Once we pulled a 180 a split second before the lightening hit our rooster tail. The next bolt hit the outriggers. A blinding light and loud boom, and the electronics panel went dark. The engine kept running though and we kept on, eventually leaving it behind us. The hailstones in the face were extremely painfull though. The only injury was the one person touching a metal object, (surface burns on arm). The rest of us were crouched in the cockpit, (I was lying in a puddle of water, and melting hailstones).

There are several good lightning threads. My personal experience, (from decades of working with high voltages), is I don't think sailboat speeds is going to make a significant difference, but it is possible to break an arc by moving the leads. The arc forms from a trail of ionized air that it is possible to break up by moving the air, (why lighting is jagged). Downside lightning is instantaneous, and of a high enough voltage to reestablish arc.

On a charter you will be unlikely to be able to alter boat enough to change it's grounding system. Jumper cables do not provide much surface area for grounding, but more than zero. A large metal plate attached to jumper cables would. I have heard of people trailing a copper ribbon for grounding.

Keeping your self dry is probably pointless, I was < 8ft from point of strike in a puddle of water in an open fishing boat, and only felt a strong tingle for a split second. I couldn't have been more wet even if I was swimming, (I was covered by a rain poncho that had been shredded to ribbons by the wind).

I would follow the other advice,reduce sail, get non essential crew below, (and away from mast), avoid metal objects, and enjoy the ride. Even with the number of boats caught in storms direct lightening strikes are rare...and wearing crocs and having a cat aboard doesn't hurt.

[sailingaway221]

AS of late there has been a lot of thunderstorm activity in the islands. I have been sailing and motoring through a lot of it. Generally you can see it form a long way away... and take steps to avoid it. I dodged at least 7 thunderstorms in the last 2 weeks. You can see and avoid if you are sailing.... or in the BVI I think probably a better plan would be see and moor... ie tie up to a mooring ball and go sit inside and wait for it to end. So far I have not been hit by any,. I guess the point is they are not that big of a deal when you can see it coming from miles away and I have sailed through several previously without any problems......don't stress too much about them....

[zeehag]

i noticed in gulf of mexico that if you cannot see stars or milky way, the sky looks a lil hazy in evening and wind getting fluky---- is a tboomer forming....was interesting to watch...guy i sailed with couldnt see the difference...sometimes it looked like tunnel vision -- could see stars straight overhead but n0thing to any side at all-- then BAM..... lol...right in the middle of one... then another.... then another..lol......mostly on coast of fla.it seemed, but entire gulf coast does this. i liked sailing more toward center of gulf--not as many storms.

[Mark Johnson]

Keeping your self dry is probably pointless, I was < 8ft from point of strike in a puddle of water in an open fishing boat, and only felt a strong tingle for a split second. I couldn't have been more wet even if I was swimming, (I was covered by a rain poncho that had been shredded to ribbons by the wind).

I would follow the other advice,reduce sail, get non essential crew below, (and away from mast), avoid metal objects, and enjoy the ride. Even with the number of boats caught in storms direct lightening strikes are rare...and wearing crocs and having a cat aboard doesn't hurt.

(Regarding the above QUOTE from Capt Bill):



Sorry to disagree with you Bill, but for all of us, anecdotal evidence from our own lives is rather meaningless. (Compiling 100,000 stories IS useful)... I have been practically knocked unconscious on three occasions from an "inducted" charge. The strike was over 100' away once, and I was touching a metal screen door when the strike happened. It and I were bone dry, as it was under a huge roof. Had I been wet, I probably wouldn't have survived. As it was, it only knocked me down. Being "bone dry" does in fact improve ones odds. This is also true regarding electrical shocks from the wiring in a house!

As I said, isolated anecdotal evidence is useless, yours OR mine... compared to many years of study of the subject. I have done this, (including buying the transcript from a huge a government grant study, done by the U of Fl). I have also compiled evidence from hundreds of other scientific studies, done over decades. THERE IS A STRONG CONSENSUS... I did do my research, and while I was only suggesting ways to "improve ones odds", it is good advice nonetheless. The only part of it of coarse that is "etched in stone", is that: "IF IT HITS YOUR BOAT, IT WILL THEN GO TO GROUND". Giving it a path that doesn't require it to go through the hull, improves your odds tremendously.

Regarding your comment of: "the odds being very slim"... That all depends. IF you will own a "sail" boat for 50 years, IN a lightning prone area, like the US Gulf or Southern East coast, or even more so... PANAMA, the odds of the boat taking a direct strike are somewhere around 50/50! I've known of dozens personally, and several were within a few hundred feet of OUR boat!

More people are killed "per year" by lightning... than flood, fire, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes or tornadoes! Since they are not killed in large numbers at once, and they are dispersed all over the planet, it never makes the national news, and this gives the ILLUSION that it is a low risk. The risk is real, as are the steps to vastly improve our odds.

LUCK HELPS TOO!

M.

BTW... Strangely enough, most people are killed by either the first or last strike! Don't know why that is? Perhaps it is because most of these deaths from lightning are on shore, and by the time it is really going, most sane people have sought shelter? HMMMM...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

More people are killed "per year" by lightning... than flood, fire, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes or tornadoes! Since they are not killed in large numbers at once, and they are dispersed all over the planet, it never makes the national news, and this gives the ILLUSION that it is a low risk. The risk is real, as are the steps to vastly improve our odds.


...

I have never heard that. It is hard to believe. It would be in the thousands would it not?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

“More people are killed "per year" by lightning ...”

Originally Posted by Therapy

I have never heard that. It is hard to believe. It would be in the thousands would it not?

Yes.
An estimated 24,000 people are killed by lightning strikes around the world each year, and about 240,000 are injured*.

* "ANNUAL RATES OF LIGHTNING FATALITIES BY COUNTRY" by Ronald L. Holl
➥ http://www.vaisala.com/Vaisala%20Doc...by_country.pdf

[Tbrad]

As my dear old Grandpa used to say; "A man that's born to hang will never drown." I just keep repeating that during rough weather.

[zeehag]

"Regarding your comment of: "the odds being very slim"... That all depends. IF you will own a "sail" boat for 50 years, IN a lightning prone area, like the US Gulf or Southern East coast, or even more so... PANAMA, the odds of the boat taking a direct strike are somewhere around 50/50! I've known of dozens personally, and several were within a few hundred feet of OUR boat!"
had this been the actual case, ida been dead more than 1000 times last yr in gom as we were always in lightning storms and never got hit...
\lightning is random and has no rhyme nor reason to its striking.
no i wont protect my boat from lightning as that seems to attract it..LOL..look at the NSA engineer in slidell been hit 2 times in 4 yrs WITH alleged state of the art protection.