I need a trailer- help please

[gunkylump]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Please don't be discouraged by all of the negative remarks. I sometimes think some of these people are afraid you might end up with a boat after spending considerably less than they did for theirs. That may be twisted thinking but for the life of me I would never recommend someone cut-up something they just bought. I don't know if you made a mistake or not. I do know that if you get the boat sailing again it will be something to be proud of. Good luck.

Thanks Capt. Lloyd and to the others who were positive in their response.

I happen to know Caroline personally. She can fix anything, period. Don't kid yourself.

Caroline came on this forum seeking assistance in getting her boat home, nothing more, nothing less. Getting the boat home will allow her the opportunity to LEARN the how to's, the why's, the do it this way to do it right methods in boat repair. She will know the boat inside out, she will know how to fix, how to properly repair issues. She will know her boat inside out. To the armchair quarterbacks out there who are bound to be negative...do you know your boat inside out? Do you own a boat....she does! And she is proud of it.

Yup, she may come on the forum later and ask how to do this or that, how it should be done....but that is NOT what she is asking for right now.

I would think that this forum, which is a sailing forum, would have been POSITIVE in the responses to her request, after all, are we not all seeking the same goal? A boat, on the water, to explore, enjoy?

I can tell you this, you naysayers, this boat, when Caroline and Aaron are done the retrofit, will be a Bristol Bristol. A 100,000 retrofit? Really? Have you ever heard of e-bay, craigslist, closing out sales? This one has the bare bones, mast, sails, and the lot. There will not be any boat yard repairs here, the work will be done by them and their boating friends!

I'm sorry, but if you really don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all. Caroline is NOT stupid, she has a wonderful faith in humanity that is rare these days....and do you really think that the seller, for 1500 bucks, is going to lead her astray? Really? Give me a break.

It is high time we support each other in our dreams and quests, after all it is THEIR dream, THEIR time and money, and THEIR desire to learn, repair, and get this boat back to her former glory.

As stated above, thanks to those who were positive and supportive, to the naysayers, try a little positive attitude and constructive, helpful comments.

All right, I'll get down off my soapbox, it just ticks me off when this type of thing happens.

gunk

[lowey49er]

Lowey49er, first post to this forum,, I agree with with captlloyd, if I was in the US, I,d come and help you, go for it.

[biker6977]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Biker,

Does the $2500 door to door include unstepping and re-stepping the mast and transfer of the boat from hardstand to trailer? and reverse at the boat's destination? [If the boat is going water to hard to trailer, and reverse, there will be haul and launch charges to consider, as well.]

Keep on happy, good luck with it all. You sound like you have lots of the skills you're going to need to get on with it and be successful.

Ann

It's currently on the hard and will go back on the hard. The mast is already unstopped and won't be restepped until rerigged. The cost includes loading and unloading. I think it's a pretty good deal. He'll take it off the jack stands on to the trailer, bring the jack stands- which are included with the boat, set the stands up and unload the boat back onto the stands. Something about a hydraulic trailer. I thought it was a good deal.

[mariner36bob]

Boat haulers are cool


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[biker6977]

Thanks Gunky! You know me, the others do not. Thank you for your faith In our abilities- whatever they may be. You are correct, this boat as I mentioned will be our classroom. We will learn all about it. Our desire is to get our forever boat in a few years, one that will hopefully be as nice as yours and not need repairs. But realistically all boats are going to need work eventually. Since we are new to sailing and boats and plan to cruise and not be tied to a dock we feel we must learn to take care of a boat properly and what better way than to totally refit one. We all know that boat wiring doesn't last forever so this will be a good start in learning- rip it all out and start over with new everything. Engine- well we might try an electric motor or we might try to get the old diesel running. Head- they are the bane of every cruiser- well we will either rip it out and do all new hoses and potty or we might try a composting head- either way we'll know more than when we started. Paint- guess we will learn how to repaint a hull. Rebed hardware- yep gonna learn that too since all the deck hardware is off. And guess what- it will all be counter sunk will have bedding stuff- don't remember what it's called but used it when I replaced the top on my Z3. Port windows? Yep gonna put in new and bigger to get more breeze through. So this will be our class room, our time to learn, to share, to find out what we're each good at and who likes or is able to do what. They nay sayers don't know me, they see Biker6977 and assume it's some guy- what they don't realize is it's me- Caroline-mother of three, grandmother of two, painter, engineer, designer, laser tech, teacher- woman of many lives and careers. When I decided to ride a motorcycle I didn't go buy a new bike- I rebuilt a 1962 panhead- raked and extended with over size cam- it was a sweet bike. They don't know that I got my kicks rebuilding old cars from a 1968 Siata, to a 1960 Sunbeam. They don't know that I've rebuilt 2 houses. They don't know that when I bought a house with a swimming pool that I redid the entire thing- included chipping the plaster, jackhammering the patio to installing the new fiber optic lighting myself, hauling 13 dump trucks of dirt, 13 loads of gravel- wheel barrow by wheel barrow. then laying a gorgeous orchard stone patio and the only thing I didn't do was reshoot the gunite (who has the machine to do that?)
No they see someone asking questions that they find silly or feel shows my lack of knowledge and logic.
Yes I purchased a boat sight unseen. Just I have many cars and motorcycles via ebay. Some were great experiences and just as described- some where not- like the '69 Fiat 500 that was supposed to be running and came with the engine in the front seat- or where the front seat was supposed to be. But I always got them going and never felt cheated, duped or screwed. I have had numerous emails with the seller. If I hire it picked up I will probably never meet James, but I trust him, as I trust everyone until proven I shouldn't.
If I was a person that didn't trust people I would never have met you and Beth and what a loss that would have been to Aaron and I as you have both made such and impact on our lives.
I will continue to come to the forum and ask questions- some maybe stupid but I know that somewhere on here I'll find the answer or be pointed in the right direction.
Will we put more into the boat than it's worth when done? Who knows- I fully expect to but the lessons we will learn will be invaluable so I guess the monetary value is second to what we will learn.
There were only 65 of these boats made but I believe they were made to last. No matter what anyone else says I am happy with my purchase, I will love this boat, I will be proud of the work I do and I will sail this- not this year and maybe not next year- but I will sail it in no more than three years and it will be the most fabulous Bristol 35 on the Gulf.
Sorry to be long winded- I get that way when I'm passionate and I am already passionate about this boat.
I will be starting a blog about the adventures of rebuilding our Bristol 35- which is yet to be named. I hope everyone will follow along once I get it started. The naysayers can chuckle when I make a mistake and the cheerleaders can rejoice when things get checked off the list. Frankly I don't care which one any of you are because this is our life, our dream, our boat, our time and our money. I already know Gunky and wife will cheer with each accomplishment and commiserate with each misstep.
I do thank each of you for your contribution to the conversation, out of each comment I find something positive and that's what I take- the positive only. Life is too short to be negative and to precious to squander.
The boat should be here mid May- I'll post pictures and updates so stay tuned.

[biker6977]

Originally Posted by mariner36bob

Boat haulers are cool

I don't know, I've never seen one in person. I've seen boats being taken down the highway but didn't pay attention.
I don't now how it's going to take it off the stands and put it back on. I may drive over just to watch. Guess I'll get on the all knowing YouTube and see if I can find one in action.
Exciting time in our life-feel like a new mom- all ready love this baby!

[biker6977]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04f1cqi3Z0U

boat hauler in action!

[mstrebe]

$2500 is a great deal to move the boat--I'm crossing my fingers that everything goes well. Also, I hope I'm not being lumped In with the naysayers when I suggested that scrapping the boat was the best option. As far as I'm concerned, paying $1500 for a boat that contains $5000 worth of lead is the same thing as buying an old chest on EBay and finding $3500 in gold inside. The exact same thing. I'll take ten of those deals please!

I think a lot of us here just know how much work you're taking on, and probably don't see any particular fiberglass hull as being much more valuable than any other. We've also seen hundreds of people start these projects only to abandon them once the level of effort and time wears them out, and seen the same hulls pop up on eBay every few years. I myself nearly "rescued" a one-of-a-kind fire boat that was San Diego's first and built in their first fire house by firemen 100 years ago. Floating, nearly operational, and only $20K. But when neither the maritime museum nor the fire museum wanted to get involved with the restoration, that was a big red flag that it was going to be out of my league so I took a pass.

Often times the best advice is telling someone not to do it. It sounds like you know what you're getting into and you've got the gumption to finish, so my hat's off to you. Please start a restoration thread and post photos as you go so we armchair admirals can nit pick as you go.

Matt

PS my first boat was that exact model of Sabre in the video you posted above. Bought it for $5000, sailed it for ten years, sold it for $4000. Keel is now worth $6000 :-(


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[nimblemotors]

Also, I hope I'm not being lumped In with the naysayers when I suggested that scrapping the boat was the best option.

Sounds like a naysayer to the other 'yeah-sayers', who apparently think giving bad advice is being a good friend.

I think the mover's price is 'too good to be true'.
You better get references from past customers.

[biker6977]

nimblemotors- I got the movers number from a previous customer. He was able to answer all my questions- I googled what to ask. He is sending me a picture of his trailer. I've since gotten one bid even lower but he seems not as together as this guy.


mstrebe- there are two sailboats at our yacht club abandonded and the harbor master has said I could have them and scrap them. Would I need to take the whole boat to the scrap yard? Will they take money of the value of the lead since they would then have to tear it apart to get the lead and scrap the rest? Anyone with insight that has scrapped for lead please let me know. He offered them to me a couple years ago and they are still sitting there.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by biker6977

mstrebe- there are two sailboats at our yacht club abandonded and the harbor master has said I could have them and scrap them. Would I need to take the whole boat to the scrap yard? Will they take money of the value of the lead since they would then have to tear it apart to get the lead and scrap the rest? Anyone with insight that has scrapped for lead please let me know. He offered them to me a couple years ago and they are still sitting there.

Before taking in a boat for ship-breaking you need to determine three things:

Is the boat a fixer, a scrapper, or a recycler?

:: A fixer is worth rebuilding, usually using parts acquired from scrappers. It's a seaworthy hull and needs only a coat of paint and some minor non-structural repairs, new(er) sails, up-holstry, carpentry repair, etc. If there's a motor, it either runs or is easily replaced (like an outboard, for example). If it takes you more than 100 hours of labor to fix up a fixer, its likely not worth the effort. Especially valuable or prized hulls are an exception to this rule and can be worth considerably more. You want to improve value by at least 5X for a fixer, so if you paid $800 for it, you should be able to sell it for $4000 once you've gotten it to sail-away condition.

:: A scrapper has hull damage, isn't watertight, or has missing or broken custom parts that can't be easily replaced, but has valuable fittings, spars, sails, etc. that can be immediately resold or used to fix another boat. Especially valuable scrappers are those of high-production run boats with custom parts that are in demand by current owners trying to maintain their boats. Look for specialty centerboards and rudders, brackets, railing, masts, etc. These boats are stripped and their hulls are broken up for disposal. Scrappers are usually production boats from name brand manufacturers. You'll identify and catalog these parts and offer them on your eBay store. You'll also use them to fix up fixers of the same or similar models.

:: A recycler has little of immediate resale value, but may have a lead keel, aluminum spars, and bronze or 316 stainless components that are bulk-recyclable. These boats are stripped and their hulls are broken up, and their metal parts are sold for bulk scrap to metal recyclers.

Now, before you decide to take on this profession, you need to answer a few questions:

1) Can I haul boats myself? A good truck and a trailer made for hauling boats is the way to go here. I know a guy who has property on a slough and actually just grounds the boats and then hauls them out of the water with a winch and a tree, but its unlikely that it'll be that easy for you.

2) Do I have room to run a scrapyard? You'll need it. Also your municipality may want to be involved with permitting depending on where you live.

3) Is there a bulk recycler nearby that I can depend on to purchase scrap metal, and what exactly do they buy? Talk to them first and get an idea of what they'll actually take in before you wind up with a bunch of unidentified pot metal that you can't get rid of.

4) Are their competing ship-breakers nearby? Shipbreaking is actually an industry. Depending on where you live, their may be yards who do this already; typically they're located on sloughs near busy harbors and they look a bit like junkyards from the outside. You may be better off pulling the keel and then giving them the rest of the boat, although they often won't take boats that don't have lead.

After you've answered those questions in the affirmative, THEN its time to look at particular boats.

Your questions in that arena are:

1) Fixer, scrapper, or recycler?

If it's a recycler (or a scrapper whose keel you don't need) then:

2) Does it have a lead keel, and if so, how much does that keel weigh? This can be found with some "Google research". Many boats have iron keels, and some have no keels because they're water-ballasted. Those boats have no recycle value, but they probably have scrap value because iron keels are a feature of production, high run boats, not custom or low-production run models where lead was much simpler to deal with.

Without a lead keel, a boat that's a recycler won't pay for its own scrapping, and should be left with its current owner.

With a lead keel, a recycler may still be very difficult to get rid of once you've gotten the lead out. You'll still have to cut it into pieces and dumpster it at a bare minimum.

Believe it or not, smaller boats are the best fixers because they're easy to haul, repair, and most importantly easy to sell because they're a good deal for a few thousand dollars to people just getting into the sport. Once you get above the $15,000 sale mark, you're going to have much more prepared customers who aren't at their first rodeo.

[biker6977]

Mstrebe- well, now I know why they are still sitting there. I know one is a 27' O'day, not sure what the other is. Both are on trailers- long since flat tires. It would be nice to get them out of the club and the harbor master has been getting rid of abandonded boats lately, but all have been power boats he's sold cheap. Can't seem to give the sailboats away- We do have a couple scrap yards, don't know about boat crunchers. Lots of work in getting rid of one. I'll leave that for another day and let him deal with it.

[a64pilot]

I'm thinking worst case, you'll learn a lot and if you decide to give up on it, you'll break even and just be out the sweat equity, but will have learned a lot.
I hope you pull it off, I believe it's really a matter if you want to bad enough, most of us don't want to bad enough. If you do, you'll make it work I'm sure.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by gunkylump

.................... I would think that this forum, which is a sailing forum, would have been POSITIVE in the responses to her request, after all, are we not all seeking the same goal? A boat, on the water, to explore, enjoy? ...........................

I'm sorry, but if you really don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all. Caroline is NOT stupid, she has a wonderful faith in humanity that is rare these days....and do you really think that the seller, for 1500 bucks, is going to lead her astray? Really? Give me a break.

It is high time we support each other in our dreams and quests, after all it is THEIR dream, THEIR time and money, and THEIR desire to learn, repair, and get this boat back to her former glory. ...........

So we should hide the truth in "supporting people's dreams"? We should encourage them in their ill thought out projects? What if someone is planning on doing something dangerous? Should we encourage them?

You sound like the school teacher who still gives the kid an "A" after he adds 2+2 and gets 5 because he tried his best.

The truth is going to hit this guy eventually, sweet, encouraging words or not. Better to warn someone first not to sink $50K into a $25K project than to wait and say "I told you so."

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I'm thinking worst case, you'll learn a lot and if you decide to give up on it, you'll break even and just be out the sweat equity, but will have learned a lot.
I hope you pull it off, I believe it's really a matter if you want to bad enough, most of us don't want to bad enough. If you do, you'll make it work I'm sure.

I agree wholeheartedly with this .

Caroline, good luck with your project. The "success" of a venture is not always measured by how well you have achieved the original goal. You will learn a heap with the experience regardless of the outcome and this is just priceless. I will be one of the ones cheering you on.

I have a close friend who is currently restoring a timber yacht, the hull of which was ground into matchsticks over about a third of its area before it sunk completely. His restoration is a sheer joy to observe. Is is economically sensible? No, but the the rewards are countless.

SWL