Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[atoll]

Originally Posted by CaptainAlf

Sounds great, but try to find that stuff where I live

ask the kids at the end of the block,sniffing it out of paper bags..........

[Woodchuck]

Originally Posted by CaptainAlf

Sounds great, but try to find that stuff where I live

Sawat Dee Kraap CaptainAlf,
I know you can get pvc primer and glue in Thailand because I used it to install a hot water system in a house I lived in in Nakhon Si Thammarat. You've just got to find a Thai person who can figure out what you are talking about. I can't remember what they call it.
This thread must look a little funny from Thailand. I don't think I could have spent five hundred bucks a month if I tried when I lived there. Of course, I didn't have a boat then either.

[kenny chaos]

Have budget navigational aids and charts been discussed yet?
Thanks-
Kenny

[w1651]

Originally Posted by kenny chaos

Have budget navigational aids and charts been discussed yet?
Thanks-
Kenny

A little bit. I think we have decided that paper charts and Down loaded charts from NOAA then brought to a printer are the way to go. After that it's all about a Ipod App. Dam that Apple Computer.

[kenny chaos]

Excuse my ignorance, why would you take downloaded
charts to a printer? Are you talking digital download for printing to large copy?
Thanks-
Kenny

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

Sawat Dee Kraap CaptainAlf,
You've just got to find a Thai person who can figure out what you are talking about. I can't remember what they call it.

A wife?

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

I have a simple solution. I've never paid for storage , never bought a car, dont pay any insurance of any kind, take my own chances, haven't caught a plane in years, don't drink , don't smoke , rarly eat in a restaurant etc etc. My $92 a month pension covers my food budget, and more. I only hauled out twice in the last 26 years. Antifouling I can buy for $100 a gallon or less, far less sometimes, only bought it twice in 26 years..
Friends, crusiing on a similar budget, who get $380- a month pension, say they have never had so much money cominng in, far more than they need.
What you list are luxuries, not necessities.
How much does cruising cost? As much as you have. What you have comming in, you will find a way to spend, and justify it as the minimum you can get by on. . Any less, and you will adjust your lifestyle to that level.

I don't believe any question on the cost of cruising can be fully answered, without a discussion on how to go about it. This is not thread drift , just a more complete answer to the questioin .

Well Brent,
I left home at 15, and still managed to put myself through school as far as one year of mechanical engineering in college. I KNOW how to live cheep!

I was giving the cost for TWO, (over 50 year old) people, and certainly We could have lived even cheaper, it just would not have been as much fun, to be in all of these different countries, and only see what was within walking distance.

You have an income... we had NO income at all! We cruised on the savings left over from selling a house that we built ourselves. Not hired built, we built all of it. We also cruised on a boat that we built, taking over 50,000 man/woman hours, and 10 years.

The two times I did this before I got married, (build a boat and sail away on it), I had moved from living in tents, to a barn, (without heat or AC), and lived on about $3,000 per year. (I lived for 15 years in this barn... free!)

My three projects took 21 years to build, and for much of this time, I took NO days off per year... not even one.

My first boat was "run down" while at anchor in Key West 33 years ago. As always, I had no insurance, so took a total loss. This was one of several times that I lost everything I owned, and started over.

I then bought a $700 van, and lived in it (in boatyards), to earn money to build my next boat.

So my point about our being among the least funded 1%, and wishing we had a bit more for inland trips, remains the same. I don't doubt that some can live even less expensive lifestyles... (by going alone and giving up the long distance travel, the boat maintenance, or the fun). I do, however, think an accurate assessment of cruising on $X ... Needs to be put in context. Is it for TWO people, on a well maintained & seaworthy boat, going from country to country, averaged out over decades???

In this context, IF you want to go out to eat once in a while, do an occasional inland trip, do some scuba diving, etc... WE found $1,000 / month to be a low end number for us.

If we had less money than what it takes to maintain our boat and ground tackle in excellent condition, we just wouldn't go. It is then the only responsible thing to do.

I certainly wasn't trying to speak for anyone else... M.

[w1651]

Originally Posted by kenny chaos

Excuse my ignorance, why would you take downloaded
charts to a printer? Are you talking digital download for printing to large copy?
Thanks-
Kenny

Yes !
This is far more economical then buying charts and they are up to date. A good NOAA nautical chart will cost anywhere from 50 to hundreds of dollars each depending on where you get them from.
You can get most charts for the United states and Caribean from NOAA as a free download. Then just take them to a printer that can print them in a large format on a good paper product.

[kenny chaos]

Originally Posted by w1651

Yes !
This is far more economical then buying charts and they are up to date. A good NOAA nautical chart will cost anywhere from 50 to hundreds of dollars each depending on where you get them from.
You can get most charts for the United states and Caribean from NOAA as a free download. Then just take them to a printer that can print them in a large format on a good paper product.

Thanks for that.
Kenny

[David_Old_Jersey]

Not quite sure where this "build your own boat" thing works in the world thing as the cheapest solution ..........especially when you factor in resale (to you it is a "custom built" to me it is a s/h DIY effort of uncertain build quality - with a s/h market value to match, doesn't mean I wouldn't buy - but at my price ).........but FWIW IMO the best deals are always from taking advantage of your own position against someone else's (Ignorance and financial).

In the case of boats that is:-

a) knowing what you are looking at (Ignorance costs - either you pay or the other side does).

b) paying s/h prices (let someone else pay the "new" Premium. There is actually no such thing as a "new" price. there is simply a price).

c) buy when it works best for you (speed costs £££) and buy when someone else is motivated to sell (not taking advantage of someone else's circumstances is simply rude - just don't expect them to tell you).

All takes time, cash can take some corners off - but obviously cannot be used to buy a cheap(er) deal

But, as always, YMMV.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by w1651

Yes !
This is far more economical then buying charts and they are up to date. A good NOAA nautical chart will cost anywhere from 50 to hundreds of dollars each depending on where you get them from.
You can get most charts for the United states and Caribean from NOAA as a free download. Then just take them to a printer that can print them in a large format on a good paper product.

Kenny.... before I got my laptop and moved into the 20th century (7yrs ago)... us cruisers over this side often borrowed charts from each other to be copied off... sometimes tough to find shop with a big enough copier... also exhanges with folks going the other way...
Though you guys in the US have got it made... free NOAA Charts online of all shores that you claim...

[kenny chaos]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Kenny.... before I got my laptop and moved into the 20th century (7yrs ago)... us cruisers over this side often borrowed charts from each other to be copied off... sometimes tough to find shop with a big enough copier... also exhanges with folks going the other way...
Though you guys in the US have got it made... free NOAA Charts online of all shores that you claim...

So what do you do now?
Thanks-
Kenny

[smurphny]

IMO If chart data is compiled with taxpayer dollars, access to the chart data SHOULD be free. This is a safety issue. If governments have information that will make something safer for people it should be free public information. Paper charts should be priced for the printing and not the data and should not be sold for profit as absurdly priced Admiralty charts. I don't know why the Dept. of Defense charts are not also available because they cover the entire planet and would surely help us non-zillionaire wanderers.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Not quite sure where this "build your own boat" thing works in the world thing as the cheapest solution ..........especially when you factor in resale (to you it is a "custom built" to me it is a s/h DIY effort of uncertain build quality - with a s/h market value to match, doesn't mean I wouldn't buy - but at my price ).........but FWIW IMO the best deals are always from taking advantage of your own position against someone else's (Ignorance and financial).

In the case of boats that is:-

a) knowing what you are looking at (Ignorance costs - either you pay or the other side does).

b) paying s/h prices (let someone else pay the "new" Premium. There is actually no such thing as a "new" price. there is simply a price).

c) buy when it works best for you (speed costs £££) and buy when someone else is motivated to sell (not taking advantage of someone else's circumstances is simply rude - just don't expect them to tell you).

All takes time, cash can take some corners off - but obviously cannot be used to buy a cheap(er) deal

But, as always, YMMV.

Very good points David,

It is not cheapest to "build your own" if you build it really well! In fact you will probably spend much more in the long run. This is IF you compare it to an old plastic boat, that you pay cash for, and do NOT keep insured. In this case, you have to have the cash to buy the plastic boat in the first place. I did not.

You do not have to have the cash first to build a boat. You just get situated in a long term, "almost free" place in the country, (like my barn), and build a boat building for $1,000. Then go make some more money... Then you get some wood & epoxy, and stop to go make some money, etc.

The advantage of "building" is that it allows you do do it better, (IF one knows how), and it allows one to pay for the boat as the money is there, then stop paying for a while, if necessary.

The other way of: getting a loan, buying a boat, and then keeping it insured until it is paid off, and only THEN can you leave and go cruising... Well, this can be even MORE expensive, and take every bit as long, before going cruising bigtime, as building one. It is, however, the logical way to do it for 99.9% of people.

I don't EVER promote boatbuilding as a "smart" way to get a boat, for MOST folks! It takes such a wide variety of skills, high energy level, and single minded determination, that very few people would finish, or be happy with the results.

I can't fault a person for abstaining from sentencing themselves to 8 or 10 years in the salt mines, VS "having a life" while you just pay for one.. Some would even call that a sign of higher intelligence!

It is just what worked for me, as I NEVER EVER get bank loans! They require a steady, predictable income, and mine has not been either. This, and living within my means, has kept me out of financial trouble all of my life.

Mark

[CaptainAlf]

Originally Posted by goprisko

Inflatables are not the dink of choice for the micro-budget cruiser. They do not last long, are expensive, must be propelled by an outboard in all but the calmest of conditions, do not tow well, cannot be sailed, and are stolen regularly and often.

Kevin, the Pardeys, Hiscocks, and myself all use or used hard dinks.

INDY

You forgot to mention James Cook and Christopher Columbus...and they did not use outboard engines either.

My point is, that in between James Cook and the Hiscocks is not a bigger gap in development than in between the Hiscocks and our days. The pace of development is still accelarating and propagating their outdated ideas from 50 years ago is like recommending horse carriages over cars.

The good ol' days are over and I definetely don't see the point why we should add the disadvantages of that time to the ones of ours. The cruising community has grown easily by a factor of 1000 since Hiscocks days. The boats on the market have changed as well and there are much more interesting boats and designs to the low budget cruiser on the market than tiny, heavy and slow long keelers with expensive conventional riggings...

INDY, I'm well aware that you've started this thread but you stated this one as well:
"Your comments and suggestions are welcome....."

But then you're coming up with this:

"This forum is for the practicalities of micro-budget cruising. Micro-budget cruising is defined here as that in boats less than 34 ft LOA. While we concede that frugality is possible in larger boats there are certain irrefutables that prevail."

Since I consider a budget of 500$/month as rather luxurious and managed myself to come down to 2500$/year I think I have something to contribute, even if my opinions differ from yours.

Of course you are right, if you absolutely refuse to make some money underway. Then you have to be one of the fortunate ones, who have the amount of 500$ as a steady income through assets or a pension and still have to lead a rather frugal lifestyle.
Since I started cruising at the age of 30, I'm not one of these fortunate ones. After purchasing Freedom Fargo I had about 40,000$ left, from which I used 30,000 up in the following 6 years, having the best time of my life.

In the beginning I used about 800$ a month, using less and less over the years with growing experience how to avoid costs and making easy bucks on the side. The last year of my cruising life, sailing from Brisbane to Thailand I managed the before mentioned 2500$/year budget. This was still a failiure, since my goal for that year was a budget of zero bucks, or in other words: Zero bucks vanishing from my bank account.
The 2500$ were the bill from Rolly Tusker in Phuket for my new sails. Apart from this I managed a 0$ budget just by hanging up ads "looking for crew" which I printed on the printer coming with my lap top and being reachable via e-mail and mostly via mobile phone.
(Please note, all the costs for lap top, mobile, Pactor modem, sailmail fee etc. were included in those 30,000$ for 6 years).

The Hiscocks had the huge advantage of unspoiled cruising grounds and their achievement of circumnavigating in those days cannot be questioned
but they didn't have the slightest chance supporting themselves underway without giving up the cruising lifestyle.
We've lost the unspoiled cruising grounds by growing populations and as well by the huge armada of yachts cruising around the planet (since you need only half the guts for doing so because affordable and reliable GPS systems are available since far more than 10 years).
But we have the chance to make the best out of it - there are always two sides to a coin.
I don't imply, that you need the funds I've had for a start, or a boat as big as Freedom Fargo. That's only important if you're a lazy bastard like I am but you have to open your eyes and ears to the opportunities the modern cruising times are offering.
And you won't see or hear them if you're listening to such great advice:

"My entertainment allowance is based upon potlucks.. inviting guests aboard for tea..
limiting drinks severely." or
"Virtually NO ELECTRONICS"

It's all about communication. If you don't mingle with the guys who can spend some bucks, how should they know that they can give them to you?

A few beers in the yacht club are well spent money, as long you connect with the right people. Let the hermit with the rowing dink count his pennies - it's good, less competition.
I don't want to say it's all easy, building up a reputation as a good and reliable worker needs time, but once achieved, this reputation will even travel with you...maintenance work on boats is IMHO the most reliable money bringer for people who do not want to take passengers or whose boats are too small to do so.

So, I hope I didn't offend too many people - just tell me if it's inappropriate what I'm posting - then perhaps I open a thread:
long term low budget cruising in the 21st century

Cheers

Alf