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Old 12-01-2011, 21:23   #796
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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post

I wonder how many cruisers out there spent way too much money on worthless gear, and too large of a boat, and then without any usable skills, ran out of luck, and had to so rudely ask for his so-called friends for help?

maybe if more people could understand the concept of "self insurance", and maybe if more people could openly talk about sailing and boat maintenance without automatically being told to go buy something... it probably wouldn't happen so often. maybe...

How about, instead of telling people to simply 'have more money' and telling them how 'real cruisers' do it, maybe people on small budgets should be advised on how to take proper precautions, how to choose their boat wisely, and how to manage their meager finances differently than all the 'real' cruisers.
Well put. You're aim is at making it all work with common sense. Others may be aiming at simply getting by cheap.

"I don't see anybody lining up to share their prosperity with me. Am I missing something?"

I dunno. I don't think it's an issue of "sharing prosperity". Just a social gathering. If one puts a lot of focus on keeping to a seriously tight budget, they might be great sailors with well thought out boats, who miss a portion of the social aspect of cruising.

But my real point is, sometimes minimalist have been known to get towed, or eat at the table without contributing.

Second hand experience here.
A good friend of mine once met a famous minimalist couple. While they were sharing their stories with him, they drank a lot of his hootch. That was the part he remembered the most.
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Old 12-01-2011, 21:38   #797
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Minggat, I totally understand what you're saying. But really, is it that bad? Is it like, 3 out of 10 boats in any given anchorage? or just the one occasional left-handed story?

I think you (and many others here) will find that people that don't have the money to 'throw at problems', are often the most self-sufficient folks you'll run across... And I think that is something that should be encouraged, not looked down upon... that's all I really meant by my last post.

Personally, I look forward to sharing the social aspect of cruising.
It just seems that when threads like this come up, Or when people come here (or anywhere) looking for advice on 'budget' cruising...the social aspect should never become the focus.
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Old 12-01-2011, 21:46   #798
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Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
Well put. You're aim is at making it all work with common sense. Others may be aiming at simply getting by cheap.

"I don't see anybody lining up to share their prosperity with me. Am I missing something?"

I dunno. I don't think it's an issue of "sharing prosperity". Just a social gathering. If one puts a lot of focus on keeping to a seriously tight budget, they might be great sailors with well thought out boats, who miss a portion of the social aspect of cruising.

But my real point is, sometimes minimalist have been known to get towed, or eat at the table without contributing.

Second hand experience here.
A good friend of mine once met a famous minimalist couple. While they were sharing their stories with him, they drank a lot of his hootch. That was the part he remembered the most.
1st hand experience here... the exact opposite... I've had the earners drinking my hooch a few times... and they knew I was struggling..
These days I start with coffee... if they're still there after an hour they get a beer for putting up with me...
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Old 12-01-2011, 22:03   #799
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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
Minggat, I totally understand what you're saying. But really, is it that bad? Is it like, 3 out of 10 boats in any given anchorage? or just the one occasional left-handed story?

I think you (and many others here) will find that people that don't have the money to 'throw at problems', are often the most self-sufficient folks you'll run across... And I think that is something that should be encouraged, not looked down upon... that's all I really meant by my last post.

Personally, I look forward to sharing the social aspect of cruising.
It just seems that when threads like this come up, Or when people come here (or anywhere) looking for advice on 'budget' cruising...the social aspect should never become the focus.
I hear ya and yes there is a social strata in all walks of life. But I agree totally that resourcefulness and self sufficiency is a valuable ability. The fact remains that in a crisis situation in the middle of nowhere, money buys you not a damn thing.
My food budget on land for two is around $200. We are not fat but are both good cooks and eat well. I also insist on at least a case of beer once a month and good wine now and then.
Considering the list of utility bills we have each month, I don't see how that could be more expensive on a boat cruising. That money can be put aside for repairs and emergencies.

i wouldn't be expecting invites to pot lucks on posh boats because I wouldn't be in that area in the first place. If I need advice on boats I'll be looking for boaters. If I need advice on gin I'll visit a gin palace.
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Old 12-01-2011, 23:38   #800
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hummm

Like we thinking people do, this swings to extremes.

The thought of a pot luck on a "posh boat" was no where near my experience. But rather a "hey, were having a dock party over on dock 4. Bring your favorite dip".

And "Is it really that bad?" is sort of looking at it from a different angle. I'm not really talking about a world full of moochers, or even the rare one. It's not about witholding help from people who need help. It's about people who shouldn't be there for their own good.

I praise those who really are "set up" to cruise sensibily. That "set up" includes doing without as well as having what you need, stopping short of all the wants.

I am a gadget junkie. Guilty. ".. spent way too much money on worthless gear". I am also guilty... make that- WAY guilty of spending too much time in marinas in the first place. Otherwise I couldn't even talk about the "party on dock 4".

I'm glad for this thread to get me thinking about what I got out of whack. At the same time, I fear that there are too many people without a laptop to even see this forum, who dream of a cheap escape from their troubles.

So then, since those folks don't have a laptop, there's no point in my trying to reach them in this thread. And certainly nobody here is going to cut corners on their "set up". So I'm going sailing... er.. back to work.

Enjoy.
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Old 13-01-2011, 00:55   #801
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LOL 500 dollar per month cruisers probably feed more folks than the higher budget folks.lol..i know i do.
potlucks--i usually bring something edible IF i go.
netbooks are reallly cheap...
i usually have too many folks ovr for coffee-- but is cool and comfy to share---many times i find i am able to trade feeding folks for work i need done......
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Old 13-01-2011, 03:52   #802
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There is a line between Self Sufficient and resourceful Vs Scrounging B#stard . Onshore or Afloat some things don't change...........

.........but a line that is drawn by each. and also possibly moves with alcohol
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Old 13-01-2011, 04:08   #803
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some postings here are starting to sound like class warfare hate, and really now if you are going to have such a big chip on your shoulder why would you even expect to invited to the pot luck
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Old 13-01-2011, 05:27   #804
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some postings here are starting to sound like class warfare hate, and really now if you are going to have such a big chip on your shoulder why would you even expect to invited to the pot luck
I do not know if its as bad as "class warfare" but there certainly is a growing stratification in the current cruising folks. But this occurs most in the "sabbatical" or short term cruisers and is rarely seen in the long term cruisers. Hang out in Georgetown, Bahamas during the "season" and you will observe this clearly.
- - I would suggest in the eastern Caribbean, at least, you will see the majority of cruisers lumped into the "sabbatical" or short term cruisers - 1 to 4 years - then they head back to land for the rest of their lives. These folks are further split into two groups - production catamarans and new and old monohulls. For the first year they are very social with everybody, but soon I see them forming circles of folks in the same economic strata as themselves. This is how they lived on land and it really hasn't changed while on the water as they know they are returning to land soon. I suspect it is just a "comfort level" thing. The cost of a production catamaran is a natural economic class divider all in itself as these folks are definitely "white collar."
- - Mono-hulls I see out here tend to have the "blue-collar" types on board. They are more self-sufficient by economic need than anything else. In my experience they are more interested in sharing the experience with open arms both up the economic divider and down into the group of minimalist cruisers. These folks are on a budget and although they like sharing there are limits they cannot exceed without jeopardizing their own journey.
- - Minimalist cruisers can also be generally seen in two different groups - at least. There are the really old timers who are out cruising for the rest of their lives and have, of necessity, pared away all "frills" that might threaten their continued ability to cruise. Very real, down to earth, folks with tales and experiences well worth the cost of a dinner to listen to and marvel at.
- - Then there are the "cheap" minimalists who are rarely encountered and who out of embarrassment or personal preference tend to keep themselves separate from the more affluent cruisers. This group is nearly invisible except in a few certain harbors where they gather - usually because there is work ashore that they can do to replenish their finances. It is extremely obvious that they are struggling to keep going and really don't have the time, inclination or resources to "hob-knob" with the "upper classes." You have to seek them out and be careful how much of your apparent "affluence" you exhibit. However, there are interesting stories and experiences to be shared making the effort well worth the time.
- - So I would surmise that yes, there is economic stratification evident across the cruising world. But by nature cruisers, I believe, are out here to "experience." And that means meeting, greeting and exchanging life and sea stories over a meal, a soda, a beer or some wine.
- - In the "old days" there was a lot less stratification. To "qualify" to cruise you had to know a lot of mechanical and other skills which is, in itself, a great equalizer. Currently we see money replacing self-sufficiency and mechanical skills. And of course, the prices of parts and repair services has significantly escalated much to the delight of local islanders.
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Old 13-01-2011, 06:22   #805
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There is a line between Self Sufficient and resourceful Vs Scrounging B#stard . Onshore or Afloat some things don't change...........

.........but a line that is drawn by each. and also possibly moves with alcohol
Hey Dave... you aint gorra nuva beer have ya .......hic'
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Old 13-01-2011, 06:41   #806
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These folks are further split into two groups - production catamarans and new and old monohulls.
Oh heck. Where does that leave me, with a home built catamaran?
I'm group-less. Can't I be part of someone's gang PLEEEZ.
Always was a round peg in a square hole (and proud of it!) ho hum.

Cheers
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Old 13-01-2011, 06:47   #807
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125.00 a week on food. What are you eating and how many are you feeding?
Hippocrates proclaimed: Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food- I believe what we put or not put in our bodyís is the single most important way to stay healthy so I buy fresh veggies, fresh fish/seafood and -this is for 1 person- and I never eat meat! no I donít eat out of a can -beans and rice/noddles are fine once in a while , but its variety that makes life interesting and this is the Greek Islands and other countries in Europe- Not possible in this area to live on $500 per month- food alone would bring you near that number not to mention $9-10 a gal fuel costs
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Old 13-01-2011, 07:07   #808
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some people just like to spend money, here in south florida you can buy your veggies (non-organic) at publix supermarket, or you can go to a local vegetable stand and get the very same veggies for 1/3 the price of publix...
got new trailer tires from a discount place in a very sketchy neighboor hood, $22/each v.s. $70 a pop at tire kingdom, and this place gets you in and out in 15 minutes, never waiting at tire kingdom again... you just have to seek out these kinds of places... its not hard to spend that kind of money on food if you dont look for cheap alternatives...

p.s. canned beans are a rip off - bulk dry is the only way to buy grains/beans/legumes
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Old 13-01-2011, 07:15   #809
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some people just like to spend money, here in south florida you can buy your veggies (non-organic) at publix supermarket, or you can go to a local vegetable stand and get the very same veggies for 1/3 the price of publix...
got new trailer tires from a discount place in a very sketchy neighboor hood, $22/each v.s. $70 a pop at tire kingdom, and this place gets you in and out in 15 minutes, never waiting at tire kingdom again... you just have to seek out these kinds of places... its not hard to spend that kind of money on food if you dont look for cheap alternatives...

p.s. canned beans are a rip off - bulk dry is the only way to buy grains/beans/legumes
South Florida is a different world than Europe- I live in the Lake Worth, ( S. Florida) area 5 months a year and things are cheaper- (but I still wind up spending about the same on food as I buy organic in Florida) not the case in the EU -
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Old 13-01-2011, 07:22   #810
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Most of my meals cost me under a dollar. And I eat well. Rarely use a can opener.
Brent, would you mind sharing a week's worth of menus? I am not a cook but I'm a minimalist in many ways, and cooking is a weak point of mine. My idea of a big meal is a rotissere chicken from the market and some packaged potato salad. I've only made popcorn and boiled eggs in my pressure cooker. That said, I now own Rose Elliot's Bean Book, and am interested in expanding my skills as I'd be losing weight rapidly without a can opener.
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