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Old 19-12-2011, 14:38   #2491
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
I live no frills, very low tech and try to use my engine as little as possible. An engine is a very important piece of safety equipment, you don't need to burn up all your fuel just because the wind died and you are still in the "in a hurry to get nowhere" mindset from land (you are cruising, you don't have to get back to the office on monday....relax). A good engine can save your boat and/or allow you to save someone else.
There are times when depending upon an engine to extricate you from trouble will cause grief. Larry Pardey documents two such cases, a ketch entering at malta, and anchored yachts trying to escape at Cabo San Lucas from an onshore gale.

It is essential that you spend time sailing your boat everywhere, including on and off moorings, to and from your slip, and on and off anchor. Once you have acquired these skills, you will find your sails more reliable and cheaper than an engine.

As documented on pp 28-37 the micro budget cruiser of today cannot afford an engine. They simply cost too much to own and operate.

INDY
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Old 19-12-2011, 17:40   #2492
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I just keep wondering how interesting life a GUY can have who repeatedly tries to convince others that they cannot do what they want to do - or in some cases, including mine, are in FACT already doing!

I am speechless....

Merry X-mas BTW!
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Old 19-12-2011, 18:55   #2493
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Here's a great product for all the amateur hull cleaners. They do much less damage to your anti foul. I have been using these successfully for 20 years or so. They can be hard to find but are worth it because they are much softer than the green ones and so work very well on hull slime.

Too soft for boats not cleaned regularly, once a month or more. Useless on barnacles.

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Old 19-12-2011, 19:44   #2494
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
I just keep wondering how interesting life a GUY can have who repeatedly tries to convince others that they cannot do what they want to do - or in some cases, including mine, are in FACT already doing!

I am speechless....

Merry X-mas BTW!
Does Pegasus have an engine and refrigeration ??
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Old 19-12-2011, 21:27   #2495
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
There are times when depending upon an engine to extricate you from trouble will cause grief. Larry Pardey documents two such cases, a ketch entering at malta, and anchored yachts trying to escape at Cabo San Lucas from an onshore gale.

It is essential that you spend time sailing your boat everywhere, including on and off moorings, to and from your slip, and on and off anchor. Once you have acquired these skills, you will find your sails more reliable and cheaper than an engine.

As documented on pp 28-37 the micro budget cruiser of today cannot afford an engine. They simply cost too much to own and operate.

INDY
I don't wish to denigrate the Pardeys; I have read 2 or 3 of their books and derived great pleasure and useful knowledge from each one. Nevertheless, the "right way" that they espouse is not the only "right way" and while they do document cases where relying on engines have caused grief, they are rather less forthcoming on the numerous occasions where they have relied on other boat's engines for a tow into an anchorage or harbour when the conditions preclude/prevent their engineless entry...
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Old 19-12-2011, 23:16   #2496
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I have met the Pardey's -- they are very nice people.

Once had an 85 year old dock neighbor that had been cruising around the world and was heading home to North Carolina. As he was heading down to Panama in his Westsail 32 his engine quit off the coast of Mexico. Since there was no wind he went below to wait for the evening breeze and to take a nap. Shortly a power vessel pulled alongside and offered him a tow. No problem, he wasn't to proud to accept a tow into port. BTW, he made it to North Carolina and the last I heard he is still sailing but staying closer to home.

If you are looking for a good read try Solcum's book to see what it means to sail without an engine.

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Old 20-12-2011, 12:12   #2497
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

A boat neighbor of mine just did something that made me bite my tongue...he removed his chart table big enough for paper charts (because he relies exclusively on his electronic) and told me (quite proudly) that he was taking his sextant off of his boat. I understand people that don't know any better and/or who don't plan on going anywhere relying exclusively on electronics. But his parents have circumnavigated and he and his wife plan on doing some serious sailing themselves. Electronics are not infallible on land in the best of circumstances, this fact along with the vulnerability of any part of the electrical system increase this exponentially.
What I am getting at is even though some people rely too heavily on gadgets gizmos and other techie stuff you can only point it out so much because our culture has taught us that we can/need to rely on technology. One of my favorite books that talks about prepping for cruising is "Ocean Voyaging" one part in it points out how the author had sailed on boats with everything from every conceivable option and redundancy to incredibly bare bones....his point being that the bare bones sailing was more pleasant because the "conveniences" that people had packed on their boat had broken down.
By the same token I will not take something off of my boat because it is possible to do with out that particular convenience...these techie things are just that conveniences and/or tools, not something that should be relied on
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Old 20-12-2011, 13:02   #2498
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Hey Wolf !!
Tell that guy I'll give him 10 bucks for that sextant as is.....
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Old 20-12-2011, 13:03   #2499
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Alright I'll pay for shipping too!!!!!
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Old 20-12-2011, 15:34   #2500
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

I think there's a few discussions around here about going without a sextant. I don't think I'd go without paper charts, but a chart table is certainly not necessary to use them. especially if you have the luxury of chartbooks, or a dinette table, or a galley...

Going without a sextant and using a GPS as you're #1 means of navigation doesn't necessarily mean you can't find you're way back to land if it fails. You can get 2 handhelds and charts of the entire world (just 'borrow' the charts) for the same price as a 'cheap; used sextant (or a nice plastic one). Having a backup handheld, and spare batteries, is pretty darn reliable. If one breaks, replace it. Much cheaper than replacing a dropped/warped sextant or trying to find parts for a WWII era german antique

If these things were prone to breaking every few years, it would be an entirely different story. But, I'm pretty sure there's a few GPSmap 76's that have been around the world more than once in the last 10 years (granted there's probably a few that have failed too, but again, a second one is relatively cheap). These can be hand brand new at West Marine for right now for $150, much cheaper on ebay and other used sources.

Easy navigation 101: keep a DR plot on your paper chart. Turn on your handheld once or twice a day and plot your actual position. (no need for expensive digital maps or even mapping gps's for this, you can get a few old magellan sportracks for $20 each these days). Store you're second handheld in a good place with spare batteries. For inshore navigation, use your smartphone app much cheaper than garmin maps and paper charts, just keep the phone in a waterproof bag type of case. If you don't have a smartphone. Get one, it's the 21's century

Back when Tania Aibi set out without knowing how to use her sextant (which turned out to be warped anyway) she frequently deduced her position by asking the position of passing ships over the VHF (whithout letting them know she was lost) And still managed to find Bermuda and then land in the Caribbean
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Old 20-12-2011, 15:42   #2501
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

PS: I certainly agree that minimizing 'techie things' would make for a closer relationship between a person and boat/sea. Staring at a colored chartplotter all day doesn't sit very well with me... But it takes all of 1.25 minutes to turn on a handheld and get a fix.

I have a sextant (a plastic one I paid $20 for) and will one day teach myself how to use it properly (I have the basics down), but I really don't see it being any more reliable than redundant handhelds and basic navigation skills.
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Old 20-12-2011, 17:03   #2502
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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PS: I certainly agree that minimizing 'techie things' would make for a closer relationship between a person and boat/sea. Staring at a colored chartplotter all day doesn't sit very well with me... But it takes all of 1.25 minutes to turn on a handheld and get a fix.

I have a sextant (a plastic one I paid $20 for) and will one day teach myself how to use it properly (I have the basics down), but I really don't see it being any more reliable than redundant handhelds and basic navigation skills.
What to do when the power goes off?...I would at least like to have a sextent and the knowledge to use it ...DVC
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Old 20-12-2011, 17:48   #2503
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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What to do when the power goes off?...I would at least like to have a sextent and the knowledge to use it ...DVC
Yeah, alot of people would agree with you.
I don't mean to start a sextant vs. gizmos argument. I just think that a very simple navigation system can be worked out no matter which direction you choose to take it.

Whether it's paper charts and a sextant, or paper charts and gps, it can be done simply and econimically. A sextant doesn't have any cost savings advantage, and there are good arguments on both sides to whether it's the right choice or not.

So choose either way... I'm saying that a budget cruiser can have fancy techie stuff, and still manage to keep it simple, reliable, and economical.
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Old 20-12-2011, 20:02   #2504
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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What to do when the power goes off?...I would at least like to have a sextent and the knowledge to use it ...DVC
It is tempting to get into Sextant vs GPS wars, but this thread is about how to cruise on the minimal amount of money possible. Electricity is certainly a luxury and in that context you would not have to worry when "the power goes off" - you don't have any in the first place.

- - What you have as an absolute minimalist cruiser is maybe a car battery and solar recharging panel to be able to operate required navigation lights and a VHF. Other lights would be oil-type lamps and maybe "AAA" or "AA" or "B" or "C" cell powered stuff like handheld GPS's of the very basic type.

- - What almost everybody has these days is a computer (lapbook, netbook, tablet, or smart phone) no matter how "economical" their budget. Both for communications (phone/Skype/etc) and for weather and other information sourcing.

- - Minimalist budget cruisers would than be wise to take advantage of the free computer navigation programs and traded e-charts as auxilliary navigation to second hand or copied paper charts and basic dividers/compass/sighting compass.

- - So, IMHO, the "sextant wars" should be in the Navigation section and not here where we are trying to assist folks in getting out cruising with the minimum amount of money.
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Old 20-12-2011, 20:36   #2505
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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It is tempting to get into Sextant vs GPS wars, but this thread is about how to cruise on the minimal amount of money possible. Electricity is certainly a luxury and in that context you would not have to worry when "the power goes off" - you don't have any in the first place.

- - What you have as an absolute minimalist cruiser is maybe a car battery and solar recharging panel to be able to operate required navigation lights and a VHF. Other lights would be oil-type lamps and maybe "AAA" or "AA" or "B" or "C" cell powered stuff like handheld GPS's of the very basic type.

- - What almost everybody has these days is a computer (lapbook, netbook, tablet, or smart phone) no matter how "economical" their budget. Both for communications (phone/Skype/etc) and for weather and other information sourcing.

- - Minimalist budget cruisers would than be wise to take advantage of the free computer navigation programs and traded e-charts as auxilliary navigation to second hand or copied paper charts and basic dividers/compass/sighting compass.

- - So, IMHO, the "sextant wars" should be in the Navigation section and not here where we are trying to assist folks in getting out cruising with the minimum amount of money.
"Oil-type lamps"? LED lights that also run off that car battery and a solar panel would be the best way to go.

They are simple and efficient.

As for the sextant/GPS stuff, the worse case is that you are cruising away from shore and a lightning strike takes out all your electronics. But, you should still know which direction your compass is pointing you in, and that the Sun comes up in the East and sets in the West. Then there is the North Star thing at night. But, most likely there will be other boats in the popular cruising spots. I think the really tight budget cruiser could take the risk and go without, but that is just my opinion.
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