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Old 20-06-2011, 20:50   #1726
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
Want to make the boat bigger? I learned this little trick this weekend.

Get rid of the table. It opens up the salon like you cannot believe. I took mine and put it into the vee birth which I won't use but for stowage anyway. It's like having a dance floor in the boat there's so much room.
Now I can have that decent sized bed I need for comfort.
I did that too on our Pretorien. Sure gave me a lot of walk around space but I missed the table so I put it back.

A better option is if you can mount it on the bulkhead so it swings up and out of the way. The very best example I've seen is on a Albin Cumulus 28. We were boat shopping and my wife loved the table design so much we almost bought the boat. Not sure if you can tell from the photo but it swings up and then can be slid over to the starboard on a pipe type support. They are very cool boats all around but too small for our family at the time.

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Old 23-06-2011, 17:18   #1727
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

In this size range there are several alternate accomodation schemes.

The most common has a cabin forward with a vee berth, next aft a head with storage opposite, next aft the saloon with setees port and starboard with a table midships, next aft the galley with either a quarter berth opposite, or a nav station. The engine, if equipped, is in a box at the base of the companion way ladder. The cockpit is aft.

Wanderer III was custom built for Eric and Susan Hiscock, to sleep two.
Two feet was taken out of the forward cabin, since it was relegated to storage, darkroom, and head. The WC was midships beneath the forward hatch, which provided headroom. This permitted moving the saloon forward, although it was kept to 7 feet fore and aft distance. The setees were shortened to 4 ft, and the sideboards forward were hollowed to take the sleeper's feet. This permitted expanding the galley, chart table area near the companionway. The cockpit was shortened to just 5 ft with a small footwell, and the 4 hp engine was on a vee drive and beneath the cockpit. Please keep in mind that Wanderer III was narrow by today's standards, and built of wood, so the inside of the ceiling was 6" narrower than the planking due to the thickness of planking, frames, and ceiling.

Of boats in this size range, the Vertue and Seraffyn come to mind. Of these, the vertue has more interior space

Again, these boats are in the pico-budget class, and should cost less to run than a boat (28-34ftLOA) in the micro-budget class.

One significant advantage of mono-hulls in this size range is their trailerability. Their beams are less than 8 ft 6 in, which means they can be trailered cross country with no permits needed.

For example, I brought Pegasus, the Tartan 27 from Annapolis to Michigan City, across the appalacians on the interstate using a rented straight truck, myself. Cost me less than $200 incuding rental of the truck. The wharrams must be disassembled for shipment, which they are designed for, but assembly will take at least a full day. Plus you need a crane to unload the bits, while the mono-hull will simply be launched from her trailer in the usual way.

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Old 23-06-2011, 17:43   #1728
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Indy, the Dovekie is a very cool boat but a coastal cruiser at best. The Tiki 26 was raced in the OSTAR, a very tough race across the North Atlantic, and it did very well. I don't think anyone here would consider sailing a Dovekie across the North Atlantic or any ocean and I thought we were taking about boats that could cross oceans.
I haven't limited myself to anything except cruising on the cheap. I agree that DoveKie is no ocean cruiser, but she certainly is going to give a family lots of fun on inland lakes, the Chesapeake, Florida Bay, Pine Island Sound, The Gulf of Maine, The Texas Coast, The Baltic Islands, The Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. The guy who finds chameleon too small ( 12 ft - $500 ) and the Rhodes 19 / Lightning too little protection from the elements when sleeping, may like the DoveKie.

I think the StoneHorse a very good boat for kids 10+ to take on their first adventures, and certainly a worthy coastal cruiser.

But for further afield, I found the hard way that 8000 # displacement is insufficient for the stuff you need to carry. 10,000 # is better, and 8 tons is really where you get enough carrying capacity. This means boats in the 32 ft class.

An important point to make is this:.... don't plan on doing a reprise of "Wagon Train".... the entire world is developed now.... there are marinas, hotels, and water spigots everywhere, and where there aren't, you will find willing hands in the villages ready to help you water ship and load fuel. Rather than investing large sums in equipment to be independent of such services, look on them as an opportunity to meet the locals.

Don't do as the following group of cruisers did.....

Just east of Ile du Pin, actually between it and New Caledonia, and within the reef lies the Swimming Pool. It is a perfect lagoon, with clear sand bottom in 3 meters depth. A motu lies on the reef, with beaches on all sides. On the beach, lagoon side, a group of local boaters (French) were having a barbeque. The Americans came in together, at least 6 boats. They anchored together, and roared to the beach in their RIBs together. They pulled their dinks onto the sand between the French dinks, grabbed their gear and proceeded to walk through the French group, kicking sand into the food spread on table cloths, with not a single word of greeting. They proceeded to the seaward beach and set up their own barbeque, again with no greetings and no consideration for the local group.

Into this tense situation, I rowed ashore. I asked the locals if I could put the dink nearby on the sand, and they suggested a suitable place.
I offered to share my beer with them, and soon we had a great time sharing stories and their excellent cuisine. Finally, my hosts asked why the other americans acted the way they did. I thought a moment... and replied.... they're scared... at home they hear nothing except horrors regarding the rest of the world... not knowing their behavior is insulting to many in the rest of the world...

Given a chance, I think you will find the people you meet fascinating, and often very helpful.

Fair winds !


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Old 24-06-2011, 08:31   #1729
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

ye only yell mark twain if is 2 fathoms depth.
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Old 24-06-2011, 12:46   #1730
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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ye only yell mark twain if is 2 fathoms depth.

If that's true I should be yellin every time I take a pee off the bow. Dang that waters cold.

MARK TWAIN !!!!!
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Old 24-06-2011, 12:52   #1731
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

only if the true depth is 2 fathoms...LOL.....
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Old 25-06-2011, 08:55   #1732
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Roller Furling vs Hanked On Sails

Most boats these days have roller furling. Those with it claim it is safer
because one doesn't need to go on deck to furl the jibs. Some go so far as
to lead all lines to the cockpit. All this expense covers a major defect of
the boat in question, to some extent, but not completely. We will get into
that later.

If you have roller furling, your sheets are always attached to the sail because they prevent the sail from unfurling. So the sheets are continuously in the sun. After 2-3 years they have sun hardened, lost lots of their strength ( which usually doesn't matter since most sheets are way too strong anyway), but most important, are no longer limp and lead through a block or two, friction becomes enormous and winch loads go up
geometrically. This goes for the halyards too, since they are permanently left coiled up at the base of the mast, or somewhere in the cockpit, in which case they clutter it in mad profusion.

If you have hanked on sails, when the sail is furled, it is in the bag, and the sheets are in the bag with it, or are stowed in a locker, out of the sun. The halyards are either hooked to their tack fittings, or have been replaced with messengers.

Since most cruising boats spend 90% of their time at anchor, the sheets, and possibly the halyards of a boat with hanked on sails can spend 90% of the time in a locker, protected from the sun. Given it takes about 30 months continuous sun to harden dacron, these lines can last 300 months of cruising or 25 years if stowed when in port. This is 10 times longer than those on a boat with roller furling.

If halyards are led to the base of the mast, vs the cockpit, and if roller cars or TFE lined slides are used on the main, a man can tension the luffs sufficiently WITHOUT A WINCH on a boat of the size under discussion here. For more about this see pp 28-36.

PROVIDED:

Masthead sheeves are roller sheeves and a minimum 6 times the line diameter

Dacron lines like Stayset X or Marlow prestretch are used for halyards.

Taped luffs are used instead of roped luffs ( on all sails ).

If one needs a little more muscle, the halyard may be secured to a handy billy with a wall hitch and the final tensioning can be done using the mechanical advantage of this block and tackle, or an eye can be worked into the halyard with a serving or knot and the tail led through a snatch block on deck thence up to the eye and back down to the hands of the sailor who then heaves on this improvised 3 part tackle to tension the halyard. I use the latter arrangement to adjust the topping lift on the main boom of Pegasus and it has worked flawlessly for the past 20 years.

if you run lines through rope clutches you add significant friction. On a boat of the size under discussion here, use jamb cleats in stead to hold the tension while you disengage the handy billy or the improvised tackle from the snatch block, then secure the halyard to a standard cleat to ensure it doesn't go flying.

Deck organizers likewise add lots of friction, nearly tripling the load on a line necessary to tension it.

Regarding decks and working on them. You have no choice really. If you are single handing, as I do most of the time, you must be at the base of the mast to clear battens which foul the lazy jacks, or to stow the lazy jacks just before hoisting the main, and reset them. Roller furling or not, lazy sheets will foul items on deck such as hatches and dinks, necessitating a trip forward to clear the mess. Then of course, the anchor and its gear must be set and retrieved from on deck.

So it is necessary to make the deck a safe place to work. This means first and foremost, a 6" high toe rail, like the 28 ft Bristol Channel PIlot cutters have. For ideas on how to install one see the Pardey's "The Capable Cruiser". You need a harness and jacklines made of webbing led near the centerline of the boat, and strongly attached, and of sufficient
strength to take the load necessary to stop you in mid career from going over the side. All unnecessary items should be stowed below, in lockers. This means no ranks of jugs fouling the side decks. No anchor chocks fouling the deck. No chain ranged on deck unless dropping the hook is immanent. No hatches fixed in the deck, instead put them on the house(s). Hand holds where needed, too.

Fair Winds,

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Old 25-06-2011, 09:05   #1733
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Changing sails at sea....

If you have hanked on sails, you should bag them while still hanked on to the stay, with the luff barely out of the mouth of the bag. Then remove the hanks, stuff the luff into the bag, and stow the whole lot below.

When we were racing, we'd do this regardless of point of sail. Since this is a cruising thread, by definition we aren't racing, so why not point the bow down wind, or onto a broad reach, with the wind from the quarter. and change sails in relative comfort? If the sail in question is a very large drifter/spinnaker, use the main to blanket the sail, and make the job much easier.

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Old 25-06-2011, 13:37   #1734
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Micro-Budget Cruising Sailboat Designs

The Pardeys, using two different Lyle Hess designs sailed the world, circumnavigating twice. In each and every case, they had no engine, or electrics aboard.

What follows are links to several sites which discuss the designs from the
board of Lyle Hess. He is notable for his interest in trailerable, centerboard cutters in sizes from 25-27 ft, the Balboa Line. I am attaching a balboa 27 Brochure for those interested.

First a site illustrating the construction of a 34 ft Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter beginning with a GRP hull, purchased from a commercial firm, Channel Cutter Yachts:
ChannelCutterYachts

Building a 34 ft Lyle Hess Falmouth Cutter: Building a Lyle Hess 34' Falmouth Cutter

Next a site illustrating the refurbishment of a wooden StoneHorse Cutter:

Rebuilding a 23ft Stone Horse Cutter

Lyle Hess died in 2002, and the Pardeys have acted as a gateway to the family who continued to offer plans for some years later.

Lyle Hess Plans: Change of Address | Sailing Blog | Lin & Larry Pardey
Sailing with Lin & Larry Pardey

However, it appears that the GFC finally took it's toll and they are no where to be found. Regardless what follows are several sites depicting his life:

Lyle C Hess
Dream-Boat Man: The Safe and Able World of Lyle Hess by Morry Edwards

Lyle Hess Boat Designer

Dream-Boat Man: The Safe and Able World of Lyle Hess by Morry Edwards

This page has a story of Hess, at a much younger age:

Lyle Hess

This site has data on all of his designs, including brochures if available:

Sailboat Designs of Lyle C.*Hess

And finally, Cape George Yachts builds a 34 which can be viewed here:

Cape George Cutters § History § Cecil Lange / William Atkin / traditional full keel sailboat


Channel Cutter Yachts is still in business, and have a good reputation, as does Cape George Yachts. Both companies sell bare GRP hulls, and assist owner builders who are completing them. Both companies traditionally put a ply deck onto the GRP hull.

Of course, the budget conscious sailor can use this info to find a completed boat that needs a new home

INDY
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Old 25-06-2011, 14:13   #1735
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Junk Rig

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If you have hanked on sails, you should bag them while still hanked on to the stay, with the luff barely out of the mouth of the bag. Then remove the hanks, stuff the luff into the bag, and stow the whole lot below.

When we were racing, we'd do this regardless of point of sail. Since this is a cruising thread, by definition we aren't racing, so why not point the bow down wind, or onto a broad reach, with the wind from the quarter. and change sails in relative comfort? If the sail in question is a very large drifter/spinnaker, use the main to blanket the sail, and make the job much easier.

INDY
For those who don’t relish the idea of changing sails on a plunging foredeck, or who think it inconvenient to change heading to reef a sail, you might consider a junk rig. Blondie Hassler (Herbert Hasler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), the originator of the OSTAR and inventor of wind-powered self-steering gear, used them single-handed on Jester. And Annie and Pete Hill, authors of “Voyaging on a Small Income” (Amazon.com: Voyaging On A Small Income (9781888671377): Annie Hill: Books) used them on Badger to sail from Greenland to Antarctica. Even INDY’s favorite, Dick Zaal’s Lapwing, can be fitted as a junk (Lapwing | Dick Zaal Yacht Design).

With no foresails, there is no roller furling gear to jamb or hanking-on at inconvenient times.

With only one sail (per mast) there is not the expense of extra sails, and no need to stow wet sails below.

With a partially balanced sail, gybing is not so intimidating.

With a free-standing mast there are no chain plates to leak or shrouds to break.

With no shrouds or stays there is less noise in the rigging.

Junk sails can be reefed at any time, in a matter of seconds, no matter what the wind speed or direction.

Because the sail fabric of junk sails is much more lightly loaded than are triangle sails are (because each panel is relatively small and bolt ropes carry most of the load), junk sails will last much longer than sloop and cutter sails.

There is an active junk rig forum at junkrig : A forum to discuss the design, building and at The Junk Rig Association - Home with an excellent description of how to make your own sails and mast at The Junk Rig Association - Arne Kverneland's Page A good introductory read is http://www.junkrigassociation.org/Re...0Beginners.pdf


Of course there are downsides:
The mast typically must be moved a bit forward of where a marconi-type mast is stepped.
Few sailmakers are familiar with making junk sails, but they are easy for a DIYer to make.
Free-standing masts are not common, but a wooden mast can be easily built, or an aluminum flagpole purchased.
You will waste time dockside explaining the benefits of your unusual rig.

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Old 25-06-2011, 14:34   #1736
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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"If halyards are led to the base of the mast, vs the cockpit, and if roller cars or TFE lined slides are used on the main, a man can tension the luffs sufficiently WITHOUT A WINCH on a boat of the size under discussion here. For more about this see pp 28-36."

Last time I priced the installation of roller cars and track on an existing mast, it was LOTS more than a appropriate winch, Indy. The above seems very strange advice here in your micro-budget cruising forum, especially when nearly any suitable boat (as described by you) will already have a halyard winch of some sort.

Wouldn't it be better to service the existing hardware, lube the sailtrack and slugs and get on with the job of sailing?

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Old 17-07-2011, 18:00   #1737
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Quote:
"If halyards are led to the base of the mast, vs the cockpit, and if roller cars or TFE lined slides are used on the main, a man can tension the luffs sufficiently WITHOUT A WINCH on a boat of the size under discussion here. For more about this see pp 28-36."

Last time I priced the installation of roller cars and track on an existing mast, it was LOTS more than a appropriate winch, Indy. The above seems very strange advice here in your micro-budget cruising forum, especially when nearly any suitable boat (as described by you) will already have a halyard winch of some sort.

Wouldn't it be better to service the existing hardware, lube the sailtrack and slugs and get on with the job of sailing?

Cheers,
It most certainly would be very sensible.

If your target boat has winches, by all means service them, and use them.

If you are building from scratch... on a budget... perhaps low friction slides.. and a taped luff will do the job economically.

INDY
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Old 17-07-2011, 18:17   #1738
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A short cruise to Martinique for tomatoes..

We are lying off the Lighthouse Resort in Barbuda.

Two weeks ago we set off upwind from Gorda Sound on Virgin Gorda, BVI for Deshaies on Guadeloupe, thence south to Marin on Martinique.

The passage from GS to Deshaies was on the wind, port tack for a little more than two days. To us this was better than using fuel to motor direct to St. Martin, and made better use of the 25kt ENE trades.

At this time of year, tropical waves come through every other day or two, bringing lines of squalls, some of which pack winds of gale force.

We deal with them by handing the yankee and reefing the main. Sail thus reduced, we can push on upwind in winds of gale force. We did this leaving Guadeloupe for Dominica, arriving at Dominica from Guadeloupe, and leaving Dominica for Martinique. The squalls averaged 5 miles across, generally killed the wind before their arrival, and blew like stink until the rains came.

Squalls like these frightened friends last year. Their boat a Whitby 38, proved a great liveaboard in St. Thomas, but little things like checking the chain plates were ignored, with the consequence of several chain plates on the weather side parting from their moorings during a squall enroute Cariacou. That same squall sank a catamaran by capsizing it.

Their boat is now for sale.

Of course, there is nothing doing regarding squalls on the way back north. We had lines of them leaving Port Louis for Barbuda, all packing 25 knots or better. Pegasus enjoyed the heavy air, doing 7 knots or better for much of the crossing to Man Of War Point on Antigua.

Our shopping in Marin went according to plan. All foods were 25% higher than last November, but the canned chopped tomatoes were still less than EUR 0.70 / can, we found lamb, ham, and turkey at half the St. Thomas price, and beautiful filets of a white fleshed fish for EUR 3.50 / kilo, not to mention butter for EUR 2.75 / 500 gms., again half the St. Thomas price.

Our favorite wine Baron Aramac was EUR 2.05 / bottle, and a very drinkable cabernet sauvingon was 3L for EUR 8.00

Of course, baguettes were EUR 0.45 each and bread EUR 0.70 each.

AND

I was able to get my SeaJet 017 epoxy primer for aluminum, currently not available in the USA.

Soon, we're off to St. Martin, thence Culebra, and on to Florida

Fair Winds,

INDY
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Old 17-07-2011, 19:03   #1739
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

My boat, 30' jib headed main designed 1936 was specifically designed with no winches (it now has two on the mast, one on the boom for reefing, two single speed at the cockpit with a pair of 2-speed barients I got used for $140). My semi-sistership (gaff rigged cutter w/bow sprit) has been single handed all over the Pacific with no winches. Winches make life easier and replace blocks for the same application. When it comes to "luxuries....they are closer to necessary than all the electronic gadgets and gizmos people are convinced they can not do with out.
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Old 27-07-2011, 08:14   #1740
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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My boat, 30' jib headed main designed 1936 was specifically designed with no winches (it now has two on the mast, one on the boom for reefing, two single speed at the cockpit with a pair of 2-speed barients I got used for $140). My semi-sistership (gaff rigged cutter w/bow sprit) has been single handed all over the Pacific with no winches. Winches make life easier and replace blocks for the same application. When it comes to "luxuries....they are closer to necessary than all the electronic gadgets and gizmos people are convinced they can not do with out.

I have to agree when you need that extra oooomph to pull in that sail or halyard they are a necessity.

On another note I was looking at noonsite the other night. Fiji the Solomons, Marquesas etc... are a little extreme in their entry fees and clearance fees. So what are some good destinations at a lower cost to cruisers? I am thinking Washington island, The Hawaian islands and their chain, the upper pacific coast as well as the Russian side Allucheans. Have to pack for cooler climates though.
Anyone got a great destination at reasonable cost? And don't say just go their and don't check in or out.... I hate jail in my own country much less some one else's country. And I'll need my boat to get back home someday.
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