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Old 10-08-2014, 04:10   #16
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

Adelie, do you seriously think that the OP, who is romancing Bavarias and Bendies would be the least bit interested in Lyly Hess anachronisms?

You may think that that sort of vessel is required for your type of sailing, and perhaps it is, but it does not in any way fit the niche that the OP is addressing.

And there are plenty of boats with single lowers that seem to do well at sea!

Jim
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:31   #17
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

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Originally Posted by K0185 View Post

Bavaria vs Jeanneau => XXX vs XXX

Red apple vs. Green Apple - To me this is primarily about "taste"

In this list I have no direct experience with the exact models. I have sailed Benneteaus and Jenneaus and have looked over Bavaria's at the dock.

As we don't know the year models and we don't know what OP wants to do with the boat we have no way to make any sort of informed opinion.

So as usual I will anyway.

Beneteau - I have the most time in Beneteaus probably, I like the boats and I like how they perform. I would look at these first - again my taste.

Jenneau - I would choose Jennenau second - I like the looks and fitment better. I like the way Benneteaus sail better

Bavaria - I am not hung up on any of the internet history about Bavarias. I am just not fond of their looks.

For me these are largely interchangeable boats - they will do similar things and it boils down to personal taste, availability, prices, condition and fitment. i.e. which one is a better deal.

In my boat search I would not exclude any of these boats from the search list out of hand.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:21   #18
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

Bavaria - built in same country as Mercedes

Jeanneau - built is same country as Citroen.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:49   #19
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Adelie, do you seriously think that the OP, who is romancing Bavarias and Bendies would be the least bit interested in Lyly Hess anachronisms?

You may think that that sort of vessel is required for your type of sailing, and perhaps it is, but it does not in any way fit the niche that the OP is addressing.

And there are plenty of boats with single lowers that seem to do well at sea!

Jim
The BCC and FC are not boats I aspire to. Nor were the Hess boats a recommendation to the OP, but a specific contradictory response to the previous post by Robert Sailor who made a blanket assertion. It was also meant to humorous in context with the whole thread. I don't see how it could be taken as a recommendation without straining interpretation.

Two posts prior to the one you reference I gave the OP a very specific comparison of the boats listed, without any snark about this boat is trash or that maker has a bad reputation, none of which I personally believe.

The OP has not stated in a way that I saw whether he/she intends to go offshore, stay coastal or just tool around the local bay/lake with these boats. Consequently, I asked follow up questions.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:22   #20
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Adelie, do you seriously think that the OP, who is romancing Bavarias and Bendies would be the least bit interested in Lyly Hess anachronisms?

You may think that that sort of vessel is required for your type of sailing, and perhaps it is, but it does not in any way fit the niche that the OP is addressing.

And there are plenty of boats with single lowers that seem to do well at sea!

Jim
Also, I do not see the Hess boats as anachronisms. They are low demand niche boats. Building a boat optimized to the IOR would be anachronistic as the IOR is defunct.
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Old 10-08-2014, 13:19   #21
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

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Define mass. 100 of a particular model per year? 50? 25?
Adelie
I think we can agree for couple hundreds per model and more than a thousand per yard facility per year
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Old 10-08-2014, 13:36   #22
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

Must be a slow week here. I like double lowers for a cruising boat as you can have 90 degree spreaders and can actually let your main out when sailing down wind, also helps reduce chafe, I`m not a fan of the big swept back spreaders for offshore boats.
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Old 10-08-2014, 14:08   #23
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
I think we can agree for couple hundreds per model and more than a thousand per yard facility per year
I guess that means there are only 5-6 major producers in the world and everybody else is small potatoes not worth considering.

MacGregor
Beneteau
Jenneau
Bavaria
Hunter
Catalina

I don't see though that how big the manufacturer is really affects how desirable a design feature such as single or double lowers is for a specific use.
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Old 10-08-2014, 14:36   #24
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Re: Confused man: Bavaria Cruiser 33 vs Sun Odyssey 33i vs Oceanis 34

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I guess that means there are only 5-6 major producers in the world and everybody else is small potatoes not worth considering.

MacGregor
Beneteau
Jenneau
Bavaria
Hunter
Catalina

I don't see though that how big the manufacturer is really affects how desirable a design feature such as single or double lowers is for a specific use.
Add Hanse Group to this.
Delphia is closing the numbers.

Beneteau and Jeanneau are the two brand names of Beneteau Group.

Anyway - Beneteau Group, Hanse Group and Bavaria are building between them well above 50 % of world sailing boats production (counting in numbers of boats), probably rather something like 70 %.
Catalina, Hunter, Delphia and others are tiny in comparison.
For such a mass production a desirable features are not at all important. Production costs are important and double lowers are more expensive. Fullstop.
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