Collision and Dismasting

[skipperpete]

I imagine that there will be an NTSB investigation into the circumstance that caused the collision so the full story will become available to ensure that this type of incident can be avoided in the future.

[Fintry]

Glad it was only damage to the boat -- really bad, to be sure, but a whole lot better than damage to people.

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

...
Glad you had a hacksaw on board! We do safety at sea rigging seminars pretty often, and we always recommend that people have a battery angle grinder on board and get comfortable using it. Makes cutting rigging free a lot easier/faster.
....

Agreed. I teach at the Cruising Club of America's Offshore Hands On Safety at Sea seminars and we strongly recommend an angle grinder to cut away rigging rather than knocking out pins or using a hacksaw. Aside from being faster, safer, and easier, it has the advantage that you can cut immediately above the turnbuckles, so at least you can save them.


Jim

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I imagine that there will be an NTSB investigation into the circumstance that caused the collision so the full story will become available to ensure that this type of incident can be avoided in the future.

There wouldn't be. Just the Coast Guard report I can get if I file a Freedom of Information to get. I have all the facts from my side along with what the fishing boat said.

[Marathon1150]

Very, very sorry to hear of this event. I'm relieved that physical injuries were relatively minor, but any accident of this magnitude will certainly cause emotional stress and trauma. I hope that mends as quickly as possible, along with getting your boat back to what it was prior to the accident.

Sailing to Mexico off the Washington coast and about 150nm offshore, we spotted a fishing boat coming right at our stern but far enough away that we were able to raise the captain on the radio and alert him to our presence. He was not very friendly, was very surprised to see us and said that we were not visible on his radar.

We accepted his explanation but then started asking every other boat we encountered between there and Baja if we were visible on their radar (our AIS failed just outside of Juan de Fuca and was replaced in San Francisco). Every other boat asked could see us on their radar, some like a large cruise ship off of Baja, could see us from more than 10nm away. We assume that the fishing boat captain was reading, eating or doing something else with the radar proximity alarm turned off to avoid annoying alarms. If the radar was actually on.

[lateral]

Condolences on your loss and the effect is has had on your well being.
Just wrong that commercial users can behave this way and the difficulty in holding them accountable. Outriggers are an accident waiting to happen and should have their own obvious strong lighting to avoid this.
Thanks for the report as it has motivated me to install the Radar unit that is gathering dust in my garage.

[skipperpete]

Ok, understood. I’m in Australia and this incident with a commercial fishing vessel would require a process of formal reporting and investigation, I admit to having no knowledge of how this type of incident is dealt with in the US.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Ok, understood. I’m in Australia and this incident with a commercial fishing vessel would require a process of formal reporting and investigation, I admit to having no knowledge of how this type of incident is dealt with in the US.

Actually, skipperpete, we have had the sleeping skipper of a fishing boat motoring right up our wake. Did not respond to VHF. He was on autopilot, and the boat "knew" its way home. Of course, we avoided him--much easier to see him in the daytime, but, judging by what we were told when we groused about it, it is not uncommon practice here in SE Tasmania. Didn't think of dobbing them in to AMSA. Honestly, I wouldn't expect them to change their practice. Wanting to get a rest is just so human! Plus, it's a hazardous profession. Lots of old fishermen around with missing fingers, and most of them are not wealthy.

We have also had the response to the question about how they are receiving our target on their radar, "I don't know. I'll go let it warm up and call you back." Regardless of what we might think about that, my opinion is that we should accept what we cannot change (or might not want to change) and heighten our own watch skills.

There are sets of flash cards you can buy that show you how to look for the darker silhouette for unlit boats, as well as correctly lit ones. Admittedly very old technology, but effective.

Ann

[blackbeard10]

Years ago did a trip from Ft. Meyers to Key West in our Cal 2-29. Great roundtrip. Winds at times were very light so more motoring than we wanted. Several night encounters with with fishing boats and tugs with mile long cable towing barges. In one instance we tried to raise the well lit fishing boat with outriggers deployed that was between 800 and 1000 meters ahead and to starboard of us and would be crossing our track. Tried to raise him/her on VHF...no answer and we did not have a CB radio on board. We were told later that CB radio is choice for communication. Anyhow it was obvious that he was increasing speed to cross in front of us. Discretion being the better choice we bore off. Tugs towing barges with long cables were the most scary. The tow boats/tugs were not well lit and the barges are only required one blinking yellow light that faces astern. Running into one on these cables would not end well. Curious, are commercial fishing vessels and vessels that tow barges by cable required to have, use, and transmit AIS?

[skipperpete]

JPA Cate, I totally agree with all that you say, watch keeping on commercial vessels can be less than excellent and trawlers here often have times where the entire complement is on the work deck sorting or shooting nets away, as for sleeping on watch, 3 of my associates have had major incidents related to poor watchkeeping... one trawled up onto “flat rock” here in Ballina Aust, another , on autopilot and asleep at the helm drove onto the breakwater at Townsville at 9 knots, yes its definitely a problem.

[Don C L]

Boy, I sure am wary of fishing boats too. It may seem unfair to paint them with a broad brush but, and this is just anecdotal but it was enough for me, many years ago I used to work with a guy who worked on an urchin boat here in the Santa Barbara area. The boats they use are fast, 15- 20 knots or so. He told me a story of coming back home one night across the channel (about 20 miles) and since they had a long day and were tired they decided to turn on the autopilot and get drunk. He said when he woke up they were going in circles in the middle of the channel. He was laughing about it... but I steer clear of fishing boats now and assume nobody's watching anything.

Oh and if I see a tug on a foggy day I'll stay clear too! Pretty likely a cable is hidden and a big barge will come looming from the mist in a few minutes.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Boy, I sure am wary of fishing boats too. It may seem unfair to paint them with a broad brush but, and this is just anecdotal but it was enough for me, many years ago I used to work with a guy who worked on an urchin boat here in the Santa Barbara area. The boats they use are fast, 15- 20 knots or so. He told me a story of coming back home one night across the channel (about 20 miles) and since they had a long day and were tired they decided to turn on the autopilot and get drunk. He said when he woke up they were going in circles in the middle of the channel. He was laughing about it... but I steer clear of fishing boats now and assume nobody's watching anything.

Oh and if I see a tug on a foggy day I'll stay clear too! Pretty likely a cable is hidden and a big barge will come looming from the mist in a few minutes.

Yes, that's the real world, not perhaps as we would like it to be, but as it is! Newbies beware.

Ann

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by lateral

Thanks for the report as it has motivated me to install the Radar unit that is gathering dust in my garage.

As I sail solo this REALLY has me thinking about getting radar. The Furuno 1st Watch is only $1000. That is really cheap for a piece of safety gear that would make a huge difference.

I'm pretty sure I just talked myself into it.

As I said on the other forum Don, I'm really glad you two are ok. AND I really hope you consider getting a trawler and doing the loop as an alternative.

[AA3JY]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Boy, I sure am wary of fishing boats too. It may seem unfair to paint them with a broad brush but, and this is just anecdotal but it was enough for me, many years ago I used to work with a guy who worked on an urchin boat here in the Santa Barbara area. The boats they use are fast, 15- 20 knots or so. He told me a story of coming back home one night across the channel (about 20 miles) and since they had a long day and were tired they decided to turn on the autopilot and get drunk. He said when he woke up they were going in circles in the middle of the channel. He was laughing about it... but I steer clear of fishing boats now and assume nobody's watching anything.

Oh and if I see a tug on a foggy day I'll stay clear too! Pretty likely a cable is hidden and a big barge will come looming from the mist in a few minutes.

Interesting article on FB..

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https...Z4TOdvv260&s=1

[bgallinger]

Sailorboy; A shocking and terrible event. I'm so relieved to know you and your wife are ok. Thanks so much for relating the event as we all can learn from it.

[5BTM]

I will add my relief knowing that everyone is ok.

A couple of comments and suggestions, based on personal experience of being the duty officer on a bridge of a 8000 ton freighter and almost running down a sailboat off Rhodos.

- we are only responible for our actions.
- others vessel's inaction do not relieve one of the responsiblity to act negligently.
-sailing vessels must keep clear of vessels engaged in fishing.
- assume that fishing vessels are always fishing

Based on my incident I can tell that;

-sailboats are practically invisible to the naked eye before dawn and especially after dusk.

- without a properly installed passive radar reflector they are invisible to radar.

-Sloops appear as gray triangles, making it difficult to quickly ascertain their heading.

-nav light at deck level or buried in toe rails are useless.
height of lights 5 feet, distance to horizon 3 miles.
height of lights 40 ft, distance to horizon 8.2 miles.


- a proper lookout is not sitting in one place, boat on a steady course.
either change your view or change course routinely.

When on watch I always had the Aldis handy.

Five rapid flashes aimed at the other vessel at night or illuminating your sails are a quick way to get attention.

Active AIS price is a fraction of the cost of the custom arches, biminis, dodgers, swim platforms and other assorted bling.