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Old 17-02-2015, 15:34   #136
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

The facts here, even in this small data set, support the majority view that it is reasonable to render assistance. Even expected. I would argue strongly that the sense of community is felt by the majority of cruisers.

I think you need to accept that you have a contrary, minority view.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:34   #137
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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That's clearly not required as it is expected behaviour by the majority.
Actually, this thread shows that who the majority is is clearly in question, that I am not alone, as you are not alone.

Since neither of us are alone, no one knows what the real majority is, and the social contract demands that we respect each other.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:35   #138
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Step aboard. Roll the dice. We're not talking about my conviction, we're talking about yours.

And to quote a good friend of mine, "you may beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride."
I would, quite happily. And, again, if you read the whole of his post you'd understand why I wouldn't get charged.

You're being obtuse now.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:35   #139
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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I think you need to accept that you have a contrary, minority view.
We disagree. Stay off my boat, I'll stay off yours. It's your ride.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:37   #140
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Actually, this thread shows that who the majority is is clearly in question, that I am not alone, as you are not alone.

Since neither of us are alone, no one knows what the real majority is, and the social contract demands that we respect each other.
You're misrepresenting the facts. The majority clearly support rendering assistance when required. You can read, go read it again.

In this instance, social contract clearly demands that we help. It is you who is in the minority and would need to take appropriate action to ensure your wishes are observed. It's not hard really.

Do you feel any empathy for someone losing their boat or suffering sever damage of their boat?
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:39   #141
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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We disagree. Stay off my boat, I'll stay off yours. It's your ride.
You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. The fact is that the majority support providing assistance.

You may be a strong introvert or may suffer from antisocial personality disorder, could be many possibilities here ... but really, you're denying the obvious now.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:41   #142
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

The vision of a broken old man with a cane sitting on a rocker on the front porch of their house all alone waiting for the neighbor kids to step on the front yard grass comes to mind.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:43   #143
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Except to board with a fire extinguisher to suppress a flame, I can't think of other instances that would prompt me to board another boat uninvited. I'd simply call the harbormaster, maybe lend a fender or rope to the cause. A worst case scenario, I might check for a manual bilge pump in the cockpit if a boat started to take on water, but I'd still call the harbormaster first. Perhaps more experienced sailors have stories and examples they'd care to share.
What if there's no harbour, let alone harbourmaster?

How about a dragging anchor? I've twice boarded boats that were dragging, one was completely adrift, nowhere near enough scope out, the other was nearly into a beach. (Having just missed our boat.)

In both instances I just let out more chain so the anchor grabbed, then left.
(I've actually done this three times, but one time I was able to reach the windlass deck switch from my dinghy, so didn't need to go aboard.)
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:45   #144
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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We disagree. Stay off my boat, I'll stay off yours. It's your ride.
So you'd rather see your boat on the rocks, than have someone let out a bit more chain for you?
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:59   #145
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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The problem with the halyards occurred because the offending boat owner absolutely refused to respect the rights of other boat owners to peaceful enjoyment of their vessels. People had become frustrated with his refusal to respect their rights and it was a fairly assertive method of bringing to his attention that this was no longer to be tolerated.
Stepping back a bit, I think this is a critical point that folks like Jammer seem unable to comprehend. No right is absolute. All rights, from free speech, to the right not to be killed, are tempered by other rights. And all rights come with equal levels of responsibilities and duties.

In the case of clanging halyards, your right to have them flapping around butts up against other people's rights not to be abused by excessive and unnecessary noise. You have a right to leave them flopping, but you have a responsibility to respect other people's rights regarding excessive noise. And you have a duty to act reasonably depending on the situation.

In the case of not wanting any assistance no matter what, this is so far outside the norm of community behaviour that some special action is required to tell people (i.e. a sign). But even here, this would not be absolute. If Jammer's boat is drifting towards others, then his private property right goes out the window. Probably also the case if it's going ashore. The impact of a destroyed boat is felt by the community which has to deal with the cleanup. I would respect his right to have his headsail flog to death IF there is a sign telling me to stay off -- unless there was a serious risk to others around from flying debris. My right not to be hit by flying crap supersedes your right to not have me step onto your boat.

There is no such thing as an absolute right to anything.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:59   #146
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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So you'd rather see your boat on the rocks, than have someone let out a bit more chain for you?
He (assuming a he?) said yes to that earlier.

Which, is fair enough. I guess The problem though, is that most other people would prefer someone to help and this guy doesn't want to put a sign up so people can see that they're not to help him. Which, clearly isn't reasonable and is likely to lead to him being upset at some point in the future.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:22   #147
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Stepping back a bit, I think this is a critical point that folks like Jammer seem unable to comprehend. No right is absolute. All rights, from free speech, to the right not to be killed, are tempered by other rights. And all rights come with equal levels of responsibilities and duties.

In the case of clanging halyards, your right to have them flapping around butts up against other people's rights not to be abused by excessive and unnecessary noise. You have a right to leave them flopping, but you have a responsibility to respect other people's rights regarding excessive noise. And you have a duty to act reasonably depending on the situation.

In the case of not wanting any assistance no matter what, this is so far outside the norm of community behaviour that some special action is required to tell people (i.e. a sign). But even here, this would not be absolute. If Jammer's boat is drifting towards others, then his private property right goes out the window. Probably also the case if it's going ashore. The impact of a destroyed boat is felt by the community which has to deal with the cleanup. I would respect his right to have his headsail flog to death IF there is a sign telling me to stay off -- unless there was a serious risk to others around from flying debris. My right not to be hit by flying crap supersedes your right to not have me step onto your boat.

There is no such thing as an absolute right to anything.
This could well be the best thing I have ever read on CF!
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:29   #148
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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So you'd rather see your boat on the rocks, than have someone let out a bit more chain for you?
I've already answered that question. Did you read the entire thread?
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:31   #149
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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No right is absolute. All rights, from free speech, to the right not to be killed, are tempered by other rights. And all rights come with equal levels of responsibilities and duties.
Maybe in Canada.

Here in the United States, our Supreme Court has guaranted one absolute, untempered right.

If you don't have the same absolute right, you have my pity. At any rate, the statement "no right is absolute" is ignorance. It may be local ignorance, but it isn't the case in the big, wide world.
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:35   #150
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Our count stands at four.

"I don't want to join the thread. I just wanted to let you know that I am shocked that people think it is their job to decide what you do with your property. And it is in any way your job to let them know that you want to keep your private property private. I just thought it was assumed that way unless you told me otherwise. Anyways, you not alone."

I'm hoping that four is enough to demonstrate my point: no one knows what the majority is. There is no way to determine it for any given marina, let alone for an area or the world.

I used to live in a nasty little town where everyone left their doors unlocked. I did not conclude from that that leaving my door unlocked here in the heart of Seattle was something everyone did.
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