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Old 24-10-2009, 22:12   #16
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I assume you've checked Used Sailboats in central Canada ? A great resource, there are links to a lot of local broker listings that you won't find on yachtworld.
You might also consider some of the sailing schools in the area. For instance, if you get a membership at Queen's Quay Sailing and Powerboating - Instruction and Membership you can sail their boats for a fraction of the cost of ownership. Might be a good starting point.
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Old 28-10-2009, 07:34   #17
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thanks to all for the great information.

this is a great forum. (how did we ever survive without the internet?)
anyone ever try the Sailtime program?

The only reason why I was considering the purchase of a boat over crewing or joining a fractional program, etc, is that i was thinking that I would like to stay on the boat, like a floating cottage.
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Old 28-10-2009, 10:37   #18
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Wannabe- I occasionally live aboard my Valiant. Only after many months of hard work is it getting comfortable for me. Sailing is extremely customized. Crew- take classes- I would even get my charter certification and charter for a few years. Only then would i make the leap to buying.
I guess we all don't want you to make the mistake of buying-with all the problems inherit in ownership and get turned off to sailing.
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Old 10-01-2010, 19:26   #19
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is there a general guide to the cost of ownership?
I am thinking; docking, insurance, in/out costs, winter storage (cdn) , maintenance, etc
I went to our local boat show and seems I can get a decent Beneteau for around 100k cdn

any input is appreciated
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Old 10-01-2010, 19:36   #20
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You might also want to check down in Erie..when we lived in Toronto we went down to NY State to look at boats, as long as they are North American made you don't pay duty. Boats in the states can be thousands of dollars cheaper and our dollar is pretty good now, which means you can get a newer boat for the money. We just bought are new boat down in Maine for a lot cheaper then we saw similar boats here in the maritimes.
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Old 10-01-2010, 20:19   #21
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Bring beer, show up on time, help put the boat to bed.

You will be universally loved.

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this is great information. I think I will take the advice as recommended and get a crew membership first.
Are crews welcomed into the club?
I just feel like a bit if a "mooch" by joining and crewing on someone elses boat all the time
Thanks
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:59   #22
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Originally Posted by wannabesailor View Post
is there a general guide to the cost of ownership?
I am thinking; docking, insurance, in/out costs, winter storage (cdn) , maintenance, etc
I went to our local boat show and seems I can get a decent Beneteau for around 100k cdn

any input is appreciated
With a new boat, maintenance should be relatively small. but count on some every year -- oil changes, bottom paint, like that.

Storage costs -- in water and on land -- depend on where. The marinas and clubs have charges based on size. So you need to know what size boat and where you will be keeping it.

Haulout and launch ... it's a group effort at our club, and it's figured into annual fees. If you're at a marina, I think, they'll charge you by the foot. If I remember rightly, at Outer Harbour for our boat they would have charged a couple hundred each way.

Insurance also goes by size, but is not awfully expensive (I think I pay a couple hundred a year for a 27-footer (which is, I grant you, somewhat older than a 2010 vessel).)

Bear in mind that a boat is a hole in the water where the money goes. There will always be things you need but don't have.

F'r instance, does the Benni you saw come with dock lines and fenders? Anchor and rode? Nav instruments above the basic speed and depth? VHF? Sails? Autopilot?

Was at the show yesterday but didn't look at the Beneteaus. Maybe later in the week. The nicest new boat I saw was the Delphia 37. But too big for our club, so out of the question, even if I had the cash.

Another thing to bear in mind is how you fit the boat, rather than how the boat fits your budget. Are you six-four? You're going to bang your head a lot in some smaller boats. Is the Admiral five-six? She not going to be able to sit comfortably in a lot of wide cockpits when the boat is well-heeled. Are there handholds below so you can move safely from the companionway to the V-berth in a seaway? Can the Admiral reach them?

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Old 11-01-2010, 17:56   #23
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You might also want to check down in Erie..when we lived in Toronto we went down to NY State to look at boats, as long as they are North American made you don't pay duty. Boats in the states can be thousands of dollars cheaper and our dollar is pretty good now, which means you can get a newer boat for the money. We just bought are new boat down in Maine for a lot cheaper then we saw similar boats here in the maritimes.
Thanks for your suggestion. I did look at some listings on yachtworld.com
and saw some boats in the USA and the did look like they were less.
Is there a general rule of thumb for how much cheaper they are in the US?
Thanks
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Old 11-01-2010, 18:46   #24
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Opti.

Laser if you are too big for an Opti.

Once you learn sailing I would think of the smallest newest Bene, if this is what your eye loves. They look like a good weekender to me.

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Old 12-01-2010, 12:43   #25
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My wife and I have been shopping for a boat for the last two months. We have looked at boats in the $50k thru $80k range such as whitbys, csy, bristols, and, most recently beneteaus. I admitted to being wedded to older stronger boats but the first mate desires the modern design of the beneteaus. I missed an opportunity to by fixer upper bristol 41.1 and csy...still kicking myself!! I am glad to see that in this forum beneteaus are fondly referred to because, frankly, I was a bit concerned about the light displacement.
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Old 12-01-2010, 16:01   #26
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light displacement not an issue?

The displacement, light or otherwise, is never an issue unless you put a boat to improper use. If all you want is cruising in your local yard, day-sailing and having a great van moored at the marina, nearly any boat will do, and a brand new light displacement, beamy boat will have a lot to it.

Then again, if you decide for any offshore work or even worse, a crossing, a light displacement mass production boat may be less than perfect - in the meaning that you may find a better tool for the job.

Pick up the boat that will do the job. Do not expect all boats to perform all jobs equally well. Quite simple.

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Old 12-01-2010, 16:26   #27
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Ahh, the impatience of youth. Go ahead, buy the newish boat, and get caught out there with your wife or girlfriend afraid, and you stressed to the gills. Then when she won't sail with you anymore, you sadly put the boat on the market, only to loose lots of money and sell it to someone like me.
You laugh, but ask me how I have bought my last two boats...for thousands less than market.
We tried to help- and to tell you the truth the fault is in our consumer oriented society, not in you.
Sailboat ownership is not a simple possession.
And the sea is still untamed.
It shows no mercy to the uninitiated.
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Old 13-01-2010, 06:59   #28
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Ahh, the impatience of youth. Go ahead, buy the newish boat, and get caught out there with your wife or girlfriend afraid, and you stressed to the gills. Then when she won't sail with you anymore, you sadly put the boat on the market, only to loose lots of money and sell it to someone like me.
You laugh, but ask me how I have bought my last two boats...for thousands less than market.
We tried to help- and to tell you the truth the fault is in our consumer oriented society, not in you.
Sailboat ownership is not a simple possession.
And the sea is still untamed.
It shows no mercy to the uninitiated.
Maybe just a bit of thread drift happening.

The OP was looking for suggestions of a boat he could use as a cottage, with some sailing thrown in. (Can't do that in an Opti or even a Laser.) He admitted up front he's not a sailor yet and has really never expressed a wish to do anything more than he asked about in the first post.

While we occasionally get some raucous weather in Toronto, people are rarely "caught out there" if they're paying attention. Most people, probably including the OP, are daysailing.

(I once asked the PO of my boat why the second reefing line wasn't rigged; he said it was because when it was bad enough to need the second reef he stayed in port.)

And given that the OP says he has up to $75,000 to spend, maybe he's not all that young.

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Old 13-01-2010, 09:21   #29
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I beg to disagree Connemara, He stated that he wanted a boat for sailing in the lakes. We get over 60 knots and deaths in our lakes here in Utah every year. We recorded winds of over 200mph on the shore next to the lake...But the point I was making was that inexperienced people should get experience before they make a big purchase- and there are many reasons for this, not the least of which is the medium we play in.
You may not have high winds in Toronto, but I would sure hate to fall in the water up there.
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Old 13-01-2010, 10:35   #30
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As I look back at my post #27 perhaps it was a bit harsh, but please understand my point of view. I am pulling kayakers, sailboaters and other boaters out of the lake everytime there is a microburst. Last year, when I was soloing, I had my hands full just taking care of the boat- and some new boaters perished about 5 miles away. No I am not the coast guard, but if I had been listening to the VHF I might have been able to help....
I feel our society places so much emphasis on "own it now" that not only do people get turned off to sailing (which is really sad) but they also place their loved ones and themselves in a fair amount of danger. I think a larger boat can often compound the problem.
I feel so strongly about this that I ask anyone interested in a boat to come sailing first- much to my wife's frustration.
So back to the OP's question- what is a good first boat?
My best answer- your friends boat for the first season, then as small as you can comfortably sail after that.
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