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Old 19-04-2014, 13:42   #106
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
As we all do!

A bit of thread drift -- but why not set up cats to blow the sheets automatically beyond a certain degree of heel? It would be reasonably simple, I would think, to engineer. Most heading sensors will now give heel angle data. And there are now reversible winches.
I like your idea
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Old 19-04-2014, 14:53   #107
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Funny how, in stories about extended survival at sea, you don't read about too many multi-hull crews who were simply picked off their boat.
Because it happens too soon for it to be a story about extended survival at sea?
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:00   #108
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
How strong of winds would cause a capsizing? Or is it more about how much sail you have out that causes capsizing?
We've had 40 knots with full sail up. Didn't capsize, didn't lift a hull, didn't do much of anything other than accelerate while I eased the mainsheet.

This is a relatively (compared to most production boats) light, high power to weight ratio cat. (Higher Bruce number than a Gunboat 48)

With a reef in it would obviously take much more wind to be a drama. I'd say you're looking at pretty rare events, ie that much wind appearing out of the blue, as it were.
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:03   #109
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
As we all do!

A bit of thread drift -- but why not set up cats to blow the sheets automatically beyond a certain degree of heel? It would be reasonably simple, I would think, to engineer. Most heading sensors will now give heel angle data. And there are now reversible winches.
You can also do it based on sheet loading. The simplest way is to attach your mainsheet to the boom using a lashing which will snap at a specific load.
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:26   #110
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I'm no expert on mono vs multihull, but I do plan to live aboard and thus I'd like my boat to be a lot like a house. Roomy, comfortable and flat sailing.

As far as which hull does what in how many mph gusts, I think the results of the Queen's Birthday Storm pretty much speak for themselves.
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:37   #111
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

We like the boat we have, but when a Sunreef 58 depreciates to within swapping distance... we'll cross over to the dark, luxurious side, I'm sure.
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:46   #112
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Funny how, in stories about extended survival at sea, you don't read about too many multi-hull crews who were simply picked off their boat.
That's because they've already reached their destination and are safely at anchor!
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Old 19-04-2014, 15:57   #113
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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We like the boat we have, but when a Sunreef 58 depreciates to within swapping distance... we'll cross over to the dark, luxurious side, I'm sure.
Let me know when that happens!

Holy cow, is that luxurious!
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Old 19-04-2014, 16:24   #114
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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That's because they've already reached their destination and are safely at anchor!
Well, in the above mentioned Queens Birthday storm, the boat that had reached Tonga and was safely at anchor was not one of the cats, rather it was a 50 foot mono, Heart of Gold (a Shumaker (sp?) 50).

Not that this proves anything, but there are monohulls out cruising that are faster than most cruising cats... lots faster. There are demonstrably some cats out cruising that will smoke nearly any mono. So what?

Cheers,

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Old 19-04-2014, 16:41   #115
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Whats a cruising cat? There are cruising cats and there are cruising cats. 44Cs boat is demonstrably a cruising cat, he lives aboard. My boat is demonstrably a cruising cat. Some of the charter barges that are sold as cruising cats, well they certainly are cruising cats, but I wouldn't use them as a yardstick for multihull performance. Cherry picking one mono design proves little.
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Old 19-04-2014, 17:15   #116
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Whats a cruising cat? There are cruising cats and there are cruising cats. 44Cs boat is demonstrably a cruising cat, he lives aboard. My boat is demonstrably a cruising cat. Some of the charter barges that are sold as cruising cats, well they certainly are cruising cats, but I wouldn't use them as a yardstick for multihull performance. Cherry picking one mono design proves little.
Well, cherry picking 44C proves little, too!

We encounter many cats in our travels. Most of them that are long term cruisers are loaded down to the point of diminished performance. Some have had the discipline to minimize loading, and they sail damn well, and I reckon that CC44 does too.

To echo your rhetoric, Heart of Gold was demonstrably a cruising mono... they did a nice multi-year circumnavigation in her with only the owner and wife as crew (JIm and Sue Corenman... he's the author of the Airmail program used in Sailmail and Winlink). When trying to escape that fierce storm they did several 240+ mile days in a row... something the cats involved were not able to match or even approach in the extant conditions.

The point that I am laboriously trying to make is that blanket statements that cruising cats offer greater sailing speeds (safely at anchor before the storm hits sort of thing) ignores the fact that many of the cats that are really cruising are no faster than many of the monos. Sure, these are "condomarans" but that is what the bulk of the fleet seem to be. We admire the performance of the faster cats just as we admire the performance of the faster monos, and I don't feel that I'm terribly prejudiced when I make the comparisons that I posted above. I hope that the OP can factor in these things in answering his original query.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 19-04-2014, 18:30   #117
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
How strong of winds would cause a capsizing? Or is it more about how much sail you have out that causes capsizing?
The wind doesn't have to be blowing very strong in a dinghy to capsize. All you need to do in about 8 knots of wind is an accidental jib while sitting or standing on the mainsheet or maybe not ease the sheet or move to the windward side of the boat in a bit of a gust. You'll see/feel in your first lessons.

Reefing is for 15 knots of wind or more than 15 degrees of heel in larger than dinghies.
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Old 19-04-2014, 21:34   #118
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The point that I am laboriously trying to make is that blanket statements that cruising cats offer greater sailing speeds (safely at anchor before the storm hits sort of thing) ignores the fact that many of the cats that are really cruising are no faster than many of the monos. Sure, these are "condomarans" but that is what the bulk of the fleet seem to be. We admire the performance of the faster cats just as we admire the performance of the faster monos, and I don't feel that I'm terribly prejudiced when I make the comparisons that I posted above. I hope that the OP can factor in these things in answering his original query.

Cheers,

Jim
Yes Jim, I am factoring things in. Some seem to be comparing a racer to someone just cruising around the coast or island hoping. In the beginning I wanted lots of speed. I wanted to rip through the ocean at 80 knots, but soon found out through reading and watching a few videos that I would end up like a spilled box tooth picks floating aimlessly around the pond.

Now after much reading, I would be comfortable with 5-7 knots on the speed side of things and even though I will be learning on a mono I'm thinking a cat best suits me because of the room for living aboard more comfortably on long passages and for what I eventually want to do.

I'm not so sure Vancouver to Panama over 25-30 days would be comfortable for me on a mono with respect to roominess. Also, I would like to visit the barrier reef in the Caribbean someday (maybe add it to my Panama voyage) and do it in length where a cat would be much more suited than a mono. Shallow waters of that nature don't seem to be a mono's friend.

I do appreciate everyone's opinions. They are very helpful. Thanks to you all.
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Old 19-04-2014, 22:17   #119
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Well, in the above mentioned Queens Birthday storm, the boat that had reached Tonga and was safely at anchor was not one of the cats, rather it was a 50 foot mono, Heart of Gold (a Shumaker (sp?) 50).

Not that this proves anything, but there are monohulls out cruising that are faster than most cruising cats... lots faster. There are demonstrably some cats out cruising that will smoke nearly any mono. So what?

Cheers,

Jim
Another boat that was fast enough to evade the worst of the storm was Fallado, a 40 foot cat.
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Old 19-04-2014, 22:29   #120
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

There is one very big difference between a monohull sailboat and a multihull, and that is ballast, or lack of it, in a multihull. Someone new to sailing might not understand that a monohull doesn't tip over when it sails because it has literally TONS of dead weight at the bottom to keep it upright. A multihull is very wide and therefore doesn't need this ballast, and is therefore lighter. That is a difference that is fundamental. This also makes a multihull able to still float when flooded, as it does not have to keep afloat all that ballast weight like a monohull. And therefore a multihull can go faster, because it CAN be lighter. It also can have a much taller mast and therefore bigger sail, because the rigging mounts are farther apart and thus has more angle to hold up a taller mast.
And a multihull has more room, because it has two hulls, but then the bridgedeck area as a wide open area. And a multihull CAN have narrow hulls which makes it go faster than fatter hulls of a monohull and still have a lot more room.

These are characteristics that are fundamental to the design, and not specific to any particularly boat. It is like a motorcycle vs a car. Sure some cars are faster than some motorbikes, but a motorbike can always be lighter and therefore faster than a car,
in fact the landspeed record cars are really not 'cars' because they have three wheels and not four like a 'car'.
However, as monohulls get larger and larger, they get wider and wider, and therefore become more like a multihull.

Really, I see no advantages at all for a monohull, except tradition and they can be very beautiful boats, mostly from a distance.
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