Tasers

[SAMPATICO]

Perhaps this has been discussed ad nauseam, tasers are now cheap and readily available at places like Bass Outdoor World. Are they considered a weapon to declare when clearing in customs in Caribbean countries?

[lookoutnw]

Why tazers, your flare gun is more effective... Think about your application...

[Patient]

The law is pretty restrictive for the Caribbean states on Taser usage.

Here is an example of the statutes for the USVI.

Islands
14 V.I.C. § 2251 Carrying or using dangerous weapons
(a) Whoever-
(1) has, possesses, bears, transports, carries or has under his proximate control any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a
blackjack, billy, sandclub, metal knuckles, bludgeon, switchblade knife or gravity knife or electric weapon or device; or
(2) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, has, possesses, bears, transports, carries or has under his proximate control, a
dagger, dirk, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon shall-
(A) be fined $5,000 and imprisoned not more than five (5) years; or (B) if he has previously been convicted of a felony, or has, possesses, bears, transports, carries or has under his proximate control, any such
weapon during the commission or attempted commission of a crime of violence (as defined in section 2253(d)(1) hereof) shall be fined $10,000
and imprisoned not more than fifteen (15) years, which penalty shall be in addition to the penalty provided for the commission of, or attempt to
commit, the crime of violence.
(b) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term 'switchblade knife' means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by
hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife; and the term 'gravity knife' means any knife which has a blade
which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked
in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device; and the term 'electric weapon or device' means any device which, through the
application or use of electric current, including battery operated devices, is designed, redesigned, used, or intended to be used for
offensive or defensive purposes, the destruction of life, or the infliction of injury.
(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, nothing contained herein shall prohibit the use of electric weapons or devices by peace
officers in the conduct of their lawful duties.
14 V.I.C. § 2252 Confiscation of illegally held weapons
Whoever violates the provisions of sections 298, 2251 or 2253 of this title, or any other provision of law prohibiting the possession, bearing,
transporting, carrying or effective control of a firearm, ammunition or other weapon shall, in addition to the punishment therein prescribed, also
have said firearm, ammunition or other weapon confiscated to the Government of the Virgin Islands.

I actually found that hidden deep in the Taser Inc. Website. Its under "Legal".

The other thing to consider is that a Taser would mean having to hold a perp at bay until the "Law" arrives. Which could be a loooong time if your on a Mooring. Although you would immobilize your adversary temporarily, you would have to subdue him afterwards. People are generally not in the best of moods after they come around either, adrenaline is running like mad etc. As Lookout stated quite well, look at the application first. Tasers make a perp drop like a sack of bricks in place. After that, you have to do what is necessary to keep them that way.

I think a $15 Radio Shack electronic door chime in the cockpit would be more effective in terms of what you want to accomplish when someone creeps onto your boat at night. Ie. It gets them OFF the boat if they do not have an intent to cause harm and get you up and ready if they have other plans.

Non-Lethal applications are really meant for LEOs because they have the ability to turn a potentially deadly situation into the same result as using a Lethal means. Perp drops dead and you cuff him. For us civilians I think that last part is something that people do not consider often. A a lot of the nasty stories you hear about boardings involve people generally not in their prime physic wrestling with thugs before they get seriously hurt or killed. I do not think a taser would help with that situation unless you were very confident in keeping someone subdued after you drop them.

Thats my .02 about it at least.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by lookoutnw

Why tazers, your flare gun is more effective... Think about your application...

A flair gun inside a boat would be a little enlightening

Royal Caribbean Passengers Busted For Drugs, Taser Gun in Bermuda : Cruise Law News

[goboatingnow]

Anything in general that has no other use, other then personal protection, tends to be banned outright in very many countries


Dave

[Unicorn Dreams]

Flare gun is a joke unless the bad guy is agraid of bright light, or maybe has his mouth open and you get a lucky shot.\\There is a video on Youtube of some MORON shooting himself in the head, all it did was bounce off, no hair burnt, drop down inside the boat syill burning... Caused a lot of excitement inside the boat though.

As for tasers, carry it, declare it and go from there, the most they will do is take it ashore and pick it up when leaving. 1/2 the times I've kept my fire arms on board in a sealed bonded locker..

On a shrimp boat back in the 70's, I was lucky enough to get hit by a 37mm white flare when a deckhand dropped the gun and it went off hiting me square in the back. About the impact of a 5 year old hitting you...

[barnakiel]

Why carry a weapon?

If a place is dangerous - do not go there!

Why carry your violent attitude into places that are relaxed and easy going? Well, at least they used to be, until you arrived...

;-)
barnie

[cfarrar]

I do not think a taser would help with that situation unless you were very confident in keeping someone subdued after you drop them.

I'm not endorsing the Taser on boat concept... but if you do take someone down with a Taser, they are temporarily subdued. If they start to come around, you can Taze them again by pressing the barrel against them. Meanwhile you can cuff them with cable ties. That assumes there's only one intruder....

[delmarrey]

Why even bother with these discussions about self defense. It's all relative to the situation. If the intruder has no weapon "man-up" and may the best one win. If he does, just bow, like someone else we know.

[swagman]

IMHO it seems most times you risk close contact you'll be in a confined space where even bear spray, let alone a flare gun, taser or hand gun, might do you as much harm as the guys you want to hurt.
We carried a favorite baseball bat and some Mace Gel as an absolute fallback.
But Barnakel got it right saying step 1 in security is staying away from risky spots.
Step 2 is sailing (or anchoring) in company you can depend on.

But if you always lock up tight and prevent them getting below, whilst you retain the means for making lots of noise under bright lights, and you can use a phone to whistle up the local cops, then you'll not need to carry those weapons.

Or for the rest of us to worry about them being taken from you and then used for future crime:-)
JOHN

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by swagman

Barnakel got it right saying step 1 is staying away from risky spots.
Step 2 is sailing (or anchoring) in company.

I agree 100% with step 1 (land or sea).

But I would say that step 2 should be maintaining an Anchor watch. and possibly that the default position until you are comfortable that no great risk involved.

Simply the visible presence (and activity - on deck) of someone awake & alert will deter all but the most determined and well armed - who would seek to make an opposed boarding against unknown odds?? Even in the US most armed home invasions don't happen to those with a person clearly on sentry duty (i.e. not dozing in front of TV ).

That could be a group thing within the Anchorage (a degree of trust involved of course........Zzzzzzzzz )..........but probably better off leaving the other vessels as the softer targets

I would also suggest thinking on the absolute downsides - if you did get boarded and robbed (of "everything"?) would it actually be such a disaster? (personally & financially). Unpleasant or wildly inconveniant not the same as disasterous.

Obviously getting deaded would be a bummer. as would personally getting bummered (Missus or you ) - but if those are what you are primarily seeking to avoid, then IMO your strategy should be based around that - like in a battle, be prepared to give up ground to win the tactical advantage to go on and win the war. Depending on where you are in the world, if you survive the boarding you then have the option (depending on mindset) to spend a few thousand dollars ashore on trying to obtain an Alfredo Garcia style haircut for your assailants.............you might not get your worldly goods back, but you would at least be ahead on points . and maybe have found another use for the pressure cooker



Actually, a row of those (above not real ) on the Pulpit might make a sneak border think twice

Always surprises me that folk can be willing to travel outside their comfort zone (i.e. of being somewhere that they know well enough to personally judge risks) with a treasure chest of goodies (and being known / expected to have such).............and then consider going to sleep is part of a reasonable protection plan . More bizarre still is the idea that having a gun when asleep is of any use

Might sound harsh but IMO some people deserve to be "robbed", if you can't look after yer own then don't enter the Freemarket

Of course standing an Anchorwatch is inconveniant - but it's cheap, it's easy. and it works very well (been used for Centuries, if not Millenia - and never been simply about a dragging anchor).........and you don't need to declare it at customs.

Tasers? (hey look, that was OP's original subject ) - if you are close enough to hit 'em with a taser you are close enough to hit 'em with a machete . and you only need to carry it in your hand to make the threat and therefore suffers no language difficulties - and once used with some oomph (you ain't shaving him) the only use for cable ties could be on the bin bag(s) .........the bonus is that with a Machete the attacker knows he only need to keep out of arms reach, whereas if you wave a gun at someone who also has a gun then you remove his options to retreat (or for you to retreat to the foredeck / forepeak?) - as with a Gun it would be sensible to to kill you.........

[David M]

I would like to see the statistics for how often cruisers actually need a weapon. I would bet it is much lower than what many people think.

Staying safe mostly comes down to common sense and much less so on what you are packing.

[Gongal]

One thing I seem to never see in these protection threads is the deterent of dogs on board. I realize that the issue of crusing with a dog is a seperate subject but for those that do is this not one of the more effective means of preventing unwelcome surprise bordings or petty theft when the crew is ashore?

[captain58sailin]

If you taze them, then you can tie them to your anchor and perform a float test.

[capn_billl]

I have yet to be in a country that has a provision in the law for "non-lethal" weapons by civilians. And if you use one in most countries, plan on being sued. And now you will have a P*ssed criminal out for revenge.