How is Greece or Croatia for new bareboat skippers?

[Airfix]

Thanks everyone for all the great advice.

I did take Pizzazz's comment as very tongue in cheek. Kind of like hand brake turning a car into a parallel parking spot. Probably not the method I would plan.

Greece sounds totally amazing and I'm sure it will be on my cruising list of places to go however it is a huge milestone birthday for my wife and I think even although prices are higher in Croatia the wine and town life sounds like it would be ideal for my wife and our friends.

The sailing, docking and planning will keep me happy too. I've started to get some quotes in from the recommended operations on this thread.

Now I need to figure out how I'm going to practice med mooring on my J22

Thanks again folks.

Airfix.

[Bullshooter]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Backing into a spot on the quay is not the only way to Med moor. Carina has a full keel with a "barn door" transom-hung rudder. In some places the rudder would hit the bottom near the quay if backed in, and even with a large plank it is difficult to climb through the gear on the pushpit to get off and on the boat. My technique was to go bow-in, lowering the Danforth stern anchor well off the quay and allowing the rode to pay out from its roller storage as I motored straight into the spot, with the bow lines looped over the front of the pushpit ready to go. Usually there were people ashore to take the lines, loop through or around and then back to the pulpit for me to secure aboard. The rode was tensioned with a primary winch on the cockpit coaming. Access was off the front of the bowsprit - sometimes with a plank but often, with lower quays, I just stepped off the bowsprit. Other than being easy to do this technique leaves the companionway private from shoreside, and the cockpit away from passersby. I was very comfortable with this mooring.


Greg

Wow, I did not know that they allowed mooring in this way. Do they allow this in Greece or Croatia? Did the locals ever make you turn around and go stern-to?

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Wow, I did not know that they allowed mooring in this way. Do they allow this in Greece or Croatia? Did the locals ever make you turn around and go stern-to?

There is no issue with any regulations or requirements, in Greece, Croatia, or anywhere else I have been. FWIW bow-in with a stern anchor is a traditional technique in Scandinavia, where a bow line is taken ashore and usually run through a permanent ring and back to the boat. This allows the bow to be pulled close enough to the shore to step off, but also pulled back at night to stay off the rocks. This cannot be done with a stern-to technique, which puts the rudder at risk.

Greg

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Wow, I did not know that they allowed mooring in this way. Do they allow this in Greece or Croatia? Did the locals ever make you turn around and go stern-to?

No bow to mooring is not uncommon and it’s up to you . Few boats have a good stern anchors though and many are awkward to get off , the locals couldn’t care less

Sugar scoops tend to slap unmercifully

( I’m stern too with 300mm under my keel ) !!!! At the moment in lakka and delta is not happy in soft sand. Time to break out the fortress.

[SaltyMetals]

Airfix, lots of good advice there. BoatingNow in particular. I have sailed in Aegean, Ionian and have now had my boat in the adriatic for the last 5-6 years. Usually in Italy inthe winter and then Croatia in the summer. A few points the others have not commented upon
1) May/June is wonderful but the water will be cold. 16-18Deg C.
2) Med mooring is a doddle once you get used to it (I often do it solo) but it is important to figure out the direction of your prop-walk so that when you stop a few lengths out from your intended berth you will have angled the boat slightly to allow for the fact that the moment you put her into reverse the prop walk will straighten her up.
3) In the ionian if you want gentle sailing do it in the morning. If you want a bit of fun in a fresher wind then sail in the afternoon. Not always like that but it is worth bearing in mind.
4) If you charter a boat which has two wheels and two rudders you cannot use the prop wash on the rudder (in forwards) to straighten things out. Just take it calmly but not too slowly. The challenge will be a cross wind if you have no bow-thruster. One solution is to allow yrself to drift on to yr neighbour (provided you are well-fendered of course)
5) if you would like a suggestion i have chartered and remain good friends with a small charter company based at Kastela/Split; www.Candor.hu , speak to Gabor. Extremely helpful and much better than some of the large charter companies. Gabor has about 12 boats in range 40-50 ft. He is Hungarian and has a Hungarian email addr but operates from Kastela/Split and is there 9 months of the year. Has an excellent team with him.

On the matter of costs if you go into an ACI marina in Croatia it will likely cost you €100 for 12-13m. They are extremely well-equipped, often w a swimming pool etc but are expensive. . Other marinas are typically €50-60for the same length and about half that for a buoy. Anchoring is nearly all the time free but do not anchor too close to a buoy field or you will have problems with the concessionaire. If you take a restaurant's anchorage agree the cost of the meal before you order.
Best of luck whichever you choose
Andrew

[TomCio]

If you are going first time to the Med, I would suggest sailing in a flotilla. Last and this year I had a chance to watch saillingholidays.com (based in Plataria, The Ionian) - this year aboard my own boat - and I think they can be a very good school for the beginners. They provide training by experienced staff sailing on two assisting yachts and launch the dinghies on harbour approaches and departures to assist less experienced skippers.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TomCio

If you are going first time to the Med, I would suggest sailing in a flotilla. Last and this year I had a chance to watch saillingholidays.com (based in Plataria, The Ionian) - this year aboard my own boat - and I think they can be a very good school for the beginners. They provide training by experienced staff sailing on two assisting yachts and launch the dinghies on harbour approaches and departures to assist less experienced skippers.

Med very easy. Come on to Greece can’t be beat.

My friend never chartered , did his day skipper , first sailboat , didn’t bother with flotillas , he’s used to motorboats.

Med moor is actually easier then coming alongside

My the way the competency standard here in the ionian is so poor it’s shocking , I think most of them printed up a ticket on a home printer

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Med very easy. Come on to Greece can’t be beat.

My friend never chartered , did his day skipper , first sailboat , didn’t bother with flotillas , he’s used to motorboats.

Med moor is actually easier then coming alongside

My the way the competency standard here in the ionian is so poor it’s shocking , I think most of them printed up a ticket on a home printer

Med mooring is as easy or as difficult as any other of all the sailing manoeuvres. Depends on just five factors: (1) how good is your boat and its equipment (anchor winch especially), (2) how well you know your boat, (3) how good is your crew or just yourself if you sail single handed, (4) what are the weather conditions, and (5) do the onshore helpers help or just the opposite (it includes professsional marineros who can be on local divers' payroll).

An acquaintance of mine never sailed at the seas, he'd been used to fresh water regattas, passed his first level sea skipper's exam and made up his mind to deliver a boat from The Canaries to The Bealeares with the complete freshmen crew. They and the boat somehow survived that experiment. Yes, there are bad sailors in The Ionian and in many other areas.

What's your point, because I can't really get it?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TomCio

Med mooring is as easy or as difficult as any other of all the sailing manoeuvres. Depends on just five factors: (1) how good is your boat and its equipment (anchor winch especially), (2) how well you know your boat, (3) how good is your crew or just yourself if you sail single handed, (4) what are the weather conditions, and (5) do the onshore helpers help or just the opposite (it includes professsional marineros who can be on local divers' payroll).



An acquaintance of mine never sailed at the seas, he'd been used to fresh water regattas, passed his first level sea skipper's exam and made up his mind to deliver a boat from The Canaries to The Bealeares with the complete freshmen crew. They and the boat somehow survived that experiment. Yes, there are bad sailors in The Ionian and in many other areas.



What's your point, because I can't really get it?

My point to the OP is come to the med and don’t fret

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My point to the OP is come to the med and don’t fret

Good idea. Why not cross The Atlantic with a fresh certificate?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TomCio

Good idea. Why not cross The Atlantic with a fresh certificate?

Now I don’t understand the point YOU are making, the OP is looking at chartering in the med. he’s not crossing oceans

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Now I don’t understand the point YOU are making, the OP is looking at chartering in the med. he’s not crossing oceans

The OP, as a freshman, is reasonalby cautious and looking for advice from more experienced yachtsmen. Your recommendation is: "go ahead at full speed", but not everyone is as talented as you to hop on a boat and handle it perfectly from day one. Every day I see many fresh charter skippers who generate a big mess (to say the least) in different harbours of The Med because they failed to learn a bit first - sail with someone else, take a course of harbour manoeuvring, and sail in a flotilla. The Med is not very different from other seas, but it does require some experience and caution.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TomCio

The OP, as a freshman, is reasonalby cautious and looking for advice from more experienced yachtsmen. Your recommendation is: "go ahead at full speed", but not everyone is as talented as you to hop on a boat and handle it perfectly from day one. Every day I see many fresh charter skippers who generate a big mess (to say the least) in different harbours of The Med because they failed to learn a bit first - sail with someone else, take a course of harbour manoeuvring, and sail in a flotilla. The Med is not very different from other seas, but it does require some experience and caution.

Flotillas are some peoples cup of tea and others not. The Ionian is a place for beginners for example , deep , light to moderate winds ( in the main )

Med mooring is trivial in a modern yacht with a fin keel and spade rudder and an electric windlass. ( this is common on all charter yachts )

In fact med mooring is more forgiving then coming along side. Why some people go on about is beyond me. If you can perform basic manoeuvres on a boat , you can med moor.


Flotillas lock you into a schedule and take you to certain places and avoid others ( typically smaller places ) you hit all the “ tourist “ hotspots and miss all the cute bays and anchor outs etc.

If you want a flotilla because you like to socialise , want stuff done for you ,then by all means join one.

But a newbie that has actually chartered before will be fine on themselves in areas like the Ionian too.

Come on in, the waters currently at 29.5 degrees C

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Flotillas are some peoples cup of tea and others not. The Ionian is a place for beginners for example , deep , light to moderate winds ( in the main )

Med mooring is trivial in a modern yacht with a fin keel and spade rudder and an electric windlass. ( this is common on all charter yachts )

In fact med mooring is more forgiving then coming along side. Why some people go on about is beyond me. If you can perform basic manoeuvres on a boat , you can med moor.


Flotillas lock you into a schedule and take you to certain places and avoid others ( typically smaller places ) you hit all the “ tourist “ hotspots and miss all the cute bays and anchor outs etc.

If you want a flotilla because you like to socialise , want stuff done for you ,then by all means join one.

But a newbie that has actually chartered before will be fine on themselves in areas like the Ionian too.

Come on in, the waters currently at 29.5 degrees C

All true about the big boys, like SunSail etc, the company I mentioned seems to do it in a bit different way (eg. they start in Plataria), but yes, they do socialise. As to the rest - since May 14th, aboard my Beneteau Oceanis Clipper 473 @SYIndianWizard (at FB), I have sailed over 1100 Nm all the way down from Primosten in Croatia to Rhodes, which, fortunately, has recently been the windiest place in The Med

[capnmatt]

We returned from our three week charter about one week ago. Have been dealing with catching up at home and at work since then. Also a minor bout of Covid seems to be running through our family - just cold symptoms (at worst) so far though.



In a nutshell though, we loved chartering in Croatia. We did a three week one-way charter from Split to Dubrovnik. We did have pretty hot temps with lighter winds which was a little disappointing, but still had a few nice sails. The Med-Mooring and stern-to anchoring was a piece of cake and we did learn a few new techniques out of necessity. A lot of history and great culture to take in, though some in my family thought it got a bit repetitive after a while. Water was the clearest water I've ever seen and I already miss jumping off the back of the boat and swimming/floating in the water. Mooring was pretty expensive whether in a marina or on the quay - and some mooring balls as well. Would generally recommend anchoring where available, but being tied up to a quay and in the middle of the action can be pretty cool as well. Some of our favorites stops were Sibenik, Hvar city, the south side of Vis (a lot of cool anchorages), Korcula and of course Dubrovnik. We had a bit of redundancy as my girls wanted to see Split and we met up with a friend there as well so we spent an extra couple day back-tracking. We also thought Split was a bit over-rated and crowded, but it was also very hot that day so maybe that had something to do with it. We were unable to make our way down to Montenegro which I've heard is pretty cool - though a long sail and extra C&I hoops to jump through for a charter.


This trip really just reinforces to me how great it would be to have a boat and a few years to explore Europe. While it was really fun and interesting, I'm not sure that we'll return to Croatia as there is so much more to see throughout Europe. And my confidence has gone way up since beginning our charter so I will feel comfortable chartering in any other location at this point.


Matt