Boat Seized in Spain by Police

[Joefloki]

I did not read all of the posts in this thread, however can contribute the following:

I think it is a world wide rule and specially applied in the European Union:
If a non European boat stays over a certain period in European waters, they have to pay VAT. And I do not see any reason why not.

If you register officially a boat at European Authorities, to get a flag certificate, one has to proof that VAT is paid.

And I do not consider it as unfair, if a non European boat should not pay VAT if staying for more than 180 days in European waters.

By the way: An Insurance is obligatory all over Europe and is controlled everywhere, in ports, marinas, by police, in channels, without insurance certificate no cruising permit wherever.

[galleyslave]

If yo try Arch Stanton's method, better think of a good story to explain the lack of stamps and visas for the relevant period.

[Lodesman]

I don't know what sort of social assistance is available in Spain, but since you're now Spaniards, I say milk the system for all its worth.

[bobfnbw]

Well... after reading this thread, several things come to mind.
1 is that having a very good knowledge of the country I am visiting, its rules, customs etc would be in my best interest. And knowing it, then following it. For instance, the OP said others that were there for a while said its not a problem to stay. Well that might have worked for them, but like pirating software, or music, many get away with it and some get burned. Bad. Why risk it when you dont have to?
2 Never tell the truth to officials. Just say you just got here.
3 Always be polite, even when your mad as hell.. its best for you.
4 Don't have a expensive looking boat, or toys, or anything that makes you appear like a target.
5 Don't go to places where you are unwanted, no matter how privileged you feel about it or how you fell your 'entitled'. There are plenty of places where you would be welcomed. Go there instead.

Thing I love about these forums is the amount of knowledge I gain from it. Some of it is esoteric, some is immediate, some I will use later on... but all is fun learning.
Hope they got out ok. Would be nice for them to post about there results once out of Spain.
Bob

[Roaring Girl]

The OPs have not as far as I can see replied, but it would be interesting to know what happened. There have been oter posts about these issues here and on te ybw forums. I am no expert, but as quick run down:

*non-EU boat into EU - VAT will be payable; you can think about where and when, plus get some 'holiday' period for residential boats
*any movement of residence can have tax implications, including for EU citizens
*in some countries, you are deemed to have imported a vehicle if it is there and in use over the 183 days and it must then conform to their tax and regulatory regime (in Spain known as matriculation)
*Vehicles in some countries includes vessels
*Spain has been the most likely to enforce such rules (not least because there are loads of non-Spaniards living outside their tax system, both ashore and afloat)

The law is not always clear, but the debate about Spanish matriculation has been hotly debated on many English language forums. There are issues about variable enforcement, and talking with locally based cruisers is of course always valuable.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Joefloki

By the way: An Insurance is obligatory all over Europe and is controlled everywhere, in ports, marinas, by police, in channels, without insurance certificate no cruising permit wherever.

Think you may be wrong there, in marinas yes but out side I´ve never heard of anyone needing insurance.

[Roaring Girl]

Have to agree with conachair - the only time I've ever been asked for insurance is by marinas concerned for their gear/claims etc. Fair enough - and in France, Spain, Portugal they would turn you away without it.

In Italy they don't ask to see it even in marinas. For the UK there is certainly no legal obligation to have insurance. However, if you have it and need it, it must be translated into Italian. All UK insurance companies happily provide the translation on request.

If there is actual legislation requiring you to have insurance, I'd be glad to know the reference.

[Joefloki]

Originally Posted by conachair

Think you may be wrong there, in marinas yes but out side I´ve never heard of anyone needing insurance.

When I was going to issue my cruising permit this year, first thing asking was the insurance.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Joefloki

When I was going to issue my cruising permit this year, first thing asking was the insurance.

Ooops. Ive never had one of those either
Which country?

[Joefloki]

Originally Posted by conachair

Ooops. Ive never had one of those either
Which country?

in every country in the Med, if you do not believe me, try it out
good luck.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Joefloki

in every country in the Med, if you do not believe me, try it out
good luck.

Never knew that, I never made it past Ceuta but the countries with med and atlantic coasts didn´t have such things. France, Spain and Morocco certainly didn´t ask for anything like that. What´s an average cost?

[Roaring Girl]

There have been various discussions about crusing permits in different countries, and I can't at the moment recall which countries require them. Also it varies according to the size of your boat (eg the notorious Sardinian tax only covered boats over 14m),a dn it changes as the law changes.

I have sailed (in the Med) in Spain, Morocco, France, and Italy; so far I have not required any cruising permit, nor been asked for insurance.

In countries that require a permit, insurance may well be required, but not every country requires on.

[Joefloki]

It is true, a cruising permit you do not need in ALL Med countries, however an insurance you will need everywhere, even in Italy and France.
If you have not been asked at some places does not mean that you do not have to have one.

[jojecas]

i am spanish, i live in spain, but i dont understand because if you are belgian (belgian consulat) and the boat is with belgian flag no limits to stay in spain, different is if you dont are citizens of countries signed schengen or the boat are different flag. In spain and in the eu, and all countries around the world are regulations for stay more than 6 months in a year. There are toooooo many persons living in a boat in spain and any problem but they are into the law, it is simply.
regards

[jojecas]

in spain you need an insurance for civil responsability around 3.000.000 €. Not ussually the police talk about but you must have one insurance.
regards