Cat 1 nz and work arounds...

[Sectorsteve]

Hi...
Im not sure im in the right place.
Ive just bought a beautiful 1963 belgian Gaffer in NZ designed by Laurent Giles " Dyarchy"
After 6 months here i want to go to the south pacific.
Im a kiwi. The boats been imported to nz from France.
I am not sure if i want to be subject to the cat 1 requirement for nz registered vessels.
Im hearing things about registering foreign. Germany for eg.
Failing that, ill get an Aussie passport which i can easily do, although aussie ships reg is typical of oz beauracracy, but i think id rather go down this path than do Cat 1 for a boat thats well maintained, seaworthy and been around the world many times.
Anyone have any ideas.

[Paul L]

You can register in a lot of possible places. Malaysia is one.

What part of Cat 1 do you want to avoid, or is just the long list bureaucracy?

[cj88]

The most common options currently for offshore registry seem to be Jersey, UK, and Langkawi (Malaysia). If you can get Australian citizenship that will open up another option. The issue may be the timeframe for getting the citizenship depending upon how you qualify for it.

[JPA Cate]

Sectorsteve, you'll probably have to re-import the boat, into Oz, if you want to have it registered in Oz, and you will have to become an Australian citizen. It will be a lot more than the passport. Does NZ allow you to have dual citizenship?

You'll only have to meet Cat. 1 if you want to sail offshore or race the boat.

Ann

[cj88]

NZ allows dual citizenship as does Australia. You can register the boat in OZ without importing it.

[Tillsbury]

Yes, you can have other citizenships as well as NZ. But from NZ you can register the boat in the UK now if you wish, you just need to get the tonnage survey done. You also need a bit more paperwork proving ownership than most NZ boats have, but that can be found eventually.

Having said that, I know that there’s a legal challenge going on that Yachting NZ have overstepped their jurisdiction in applying Cat 1 to cruisers. Of course, they are responsible for the NZ racing scene and if they stipulate a bunch of requirements in order to enter a YNZ sanctioned offshore race, then you have to adhere to those regulations in order to enter the race. On the other hand, Maritime NZ has dumped the requirements for NZ-registered cruising yachts into the same category. It’s not automatically logical that the same requirements apply to cruisers wanting to sail to the South Pacific that apply to offshore racing boat owners and their amateur or professional crew. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Almost all of category 1 is completely logical, and easy if you are a responsible sailor located near an inspector. There are a couple of somewhat pointless and expensive conditions, however. Making an skipper attend a three-day “offshore medical” course makes sense to me. Making half of the crew (or both in the case of double-handers) attend this course regardless of experience, and do so every two years without the option of a shortened “refresher” or similar course is just nonsense. The same applies to the safety at sea courses. Do them once, sure. Doing them again and again is just revenue gathering.

[Cowpoos]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Maritime NZ has dumped the requirements for NZ-registered cruising yachts into the same category. It’s not automatically logical that the same requirements apply to cruisers wanting to sail to the South Pacific that apply to offshore racing boat owners and their amateur or professional crew. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Interesting. When did this happen?

[KiwiKen]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Sectorsteve, . Does NZ allow you to have dual citizenship?

You'll only have to meet Cat. 1 if you want to sail offshore or race the boat.

Ann

I am NZ born and I have both British and Australian Citizenship as well as an NZ passport, though Aussie citizenship is not nearly as easy to acquire nowadays since John Howard changed the rules for Kiwis in 1997.
A kiwi passport can be an asset as the NZ Gov't hasn't offended as many countries as the Brits and Aussies.


An NZ Cat 1 can be a bit over the op, NZ is definitely a nanny state, as well as suffocatingly politically correct, but the rules are designed to protect the foolhardy from themselves, and cut down the cost of marine search and rescue, NZ for a small country has a very large oceanic search and rescue zone and responsibility.

[Tillsbury]

This is the key, certainly. And, unlike the majority of the large areas covered by the US and Australia, most of the NZ SAR area is pretty inhospitable and nowhere near land. You will be pretty much on your own for a fair while in this area, and you need to be able to handle it.

Still, I believe that proving that you can handle it is something that should be available, rather than having to go to time-consuming and tedious mandated courses, especially if you're more experienced than the guys giving the course.

[MickB]

Originally Posted by cj88

The most common options currently for offshore registry seem to be Jersey, UK, and Langkawi (Malaysia). If you can get Australian citizenship that will open up another option. The issue may be the timeframe for getting the citizenship depending upon how you qualify for it.

Ozzy citizenship for my Kiwi better half took 12 months, Megs had lived and worked in Oz for 20 years.

[Grattaway]

Sector Steve

Registration in NZ is reasonably straight forward - its the inspection process that Maritime NZ has dumped on boats that want to sail offshore that is the issue. Unfortunately every year the nanny state gets more nannying - right now we are busy saving the world from gun crazies, social media trolls and global warming. Given that the nanny state is so busy you could just sail away - its been done before - Your yacht your life

[Tillsbury]

Good luck keeping your boat when you land in another country without clearing out of NZ...

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Good luck keeping your boat when you land in another country without clearing out of NZ...

It has certainly been done before, in particular folks going to New Cal back in around '95 when NZ stipulated Cat one requirements for foreign boats wanting to leave NZ. There were no repercussions in NC, but the NZ authorities were quite bent out of shape when some of those people returned to NZ.

Thus started the infamous "Section 21 wars" which eventually went clear to the NZ Supreme court who ruled it illegal and it was dropped. Didn't help the Kiwis, though!

Jim

[Tillsbury]

But nowadays you can’t clear out of customs without cat1, which will annoy the French

[JPA Cate]

^^^^

You certainly can, if you are a foreign registered boat. That was the whole thrust of the "Sec. 21 Wars" to which Jim referred. That is the goal towards which sectorsteve was aiming with his question about Australian registry. With Australian registry, though, his boat would have to have an NZ cruising permit, and be required to spend time outside NZ. Not a problem if he wants to have it on the east coast of Oz, and to register it in Oz. In Oz, he will have to have state registry, as well, except in the Northern Territory, I believe. I'm actually a little hazy on the various states' requirements. If it were NZ registered, it could visit Oz, but not remain here, unless imported, as mentioned above.

Ann