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Old 22-10-2011, 07:28   #46
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Our Hunter only has one reef point on the main, and it leaves a pretty good amount of sail exposed. Can I have a sail loft put in a second set of reef points?

This is our first boat; our learning boat. We'll learn to sail on her for a couple of years before moving on to a bigger vessel. We're not just learning about sailing, but what we will want when we begin shopping for the next boat.
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Old 22-10-2011, 07:42   #47
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

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Our Hunter only has one reef point on the main, and it leaves a pretty good amount of sail exposed. Can I have a sail loft put in a second set of reef points?

Yes, it shouldn't be a big deal to add a set of reef points. I don't know how the reefing system works on your Hunter, but you may also need to add a cheek block to your boom, a cleat and a pad eye. There are many ways to rig, I'd discuss it with your sailmaker.
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Old 22-10-2011, 07:54   #48
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Thanks Tempest! I actually have recently begun to search out sail lofts and there are quite a few in my area. I originally thought to buy a new main (because I think the foot of mine is too blown out) but heard that it would be far less pennies to have it cut and 'patched'. This is good news to me because I can learn about maintaining sails and keep socking away cash for the next boat without dropping too much into this one. When I find a suitable vendor I will ask about the additional reefing point too.
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Old 22-10-2011, 08:38   #49
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

Look into a place called JSI on 3rd ave south in St. Pete.

While looking for some Edson wheel parts I shopped there, and had a full tour of the place with an employee. It was very impressive. Sails, masts, rigging, canvas, and everything one would need.

A dock mate had his in-mast main re-cut for a very reasonable price after it had stretched some. I intended to have my main worked on there but I headed north before doing so.

I think it's a place worth checking out.
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Old 22-10-2011, 08:57   #50
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

bareftgirl--i concur with boatman---- the instructor has the method for the class, but in reality doesnt always work. when ye sail in weather-- sloops, drop or reef main first.ketch-- drop and furl main and start trimming the mizzen and jib. jib is steering sail. main is the extra bit of zoom needed to topple ye in too much wind. first the kiss of cool air, then the haze , then the light and flukey winds, then BAM... is florida. just dont put sail back up in the light and flukeys as that is sign of more to come.
with my ketch-- in wind i am well balance with mizzen and jib both reefed.
after sailing in fa for a while , when that cool thread of air in the warm wind comes along, i get the shivers,but not from coldness--i know what is coming.......watch the seas and sky and see what other signs you find to accompany the cool thread of breeze-- there are signs...
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Old 22-10-2011, 08:58   #51
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Thanks FourWinds! I will do just that. Sounds like they really value their customers; rare these days.
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Old 22-10-2011, 09:04   #52
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Oh yeah Zee....I watched as the white caps were heading inshore right towards us. I could see them off in the distance before the cold rush of air. We just got clipped by the edge of the squall because we weren't able to outrun it. For sure we'll get more practice with these kinds of things living and sailing where we do.

Btw, what's a fluke?
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Old 22-10-2011, 09:16   #53
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

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So when a squall line is heading your direction and you feel that first wisp of ' really cold air' (I know you all know what I mean) what sail comes down first...the mainsail or the jib? And why?
Like almost all such questions, it depends somewhat on the boat. If you have a small IOR main and a 155 jib then you probably want to address the jib first. Also if you have a hank on jib, you probably want to address it first. These two things were common in the past and that may be why 'go for the jib first' is enshrined in your instructor's lessons.

But if you have a more modern rig with a big main and a smaller roller furling jib then you certainly want to address the main first. Reefing the main will be slower, its more sail area and it will have more positive effect the steering control/balance of the boat.

And it further depends on your course and position with regard to shore. If you get rid of the jib, and leave some main, the boat will naturally weathercock and you can essentially 'park' the boat (see forereaching). Again, this was the preferred choice with older hull/rudder designs that did not run very well (see the Pardey's). On the other hand, if you are already running, and have a long way to land in that direction, and have a hull/rudder configuration that runs with good steering control, it makes sense to drop the main and continue to run with the jib. You will have much better steering balance than trying to run with mainsail alone.

Personally I think its generally a bit of sloppy seamanship to depend on the engine thru garden variety squalls. You should be able to sail right thru those and its good practice. You can sometimes sail unexpectedly into 'wind acceleration zones' (like off hilly headlands that strongly funnel the wind) and then benefit from having a well practiced quick sail reduction effort.

Now, if the squall is more than 'garden variety' - for instance showing lots of lightening and or funnels or NOAA warnings for +50kts, then it is good seamanship to drop the sail area down to the minimum to maintain steering control and if your boat does not have appropriate sized reefs or storm sails then getting rid of the sails and becoming a motor boat (dropping all sail and using the motor) may be appropriate. But even in this sort of situation, as in this summers Chicago to mac race (where the mainsail reefs are often just to meet the rule and not really properly reinforced correctly for real use), it is quite possible, with good skills, to sail right thru (as the vast majority of competitors did). Our boats (by and large) are in fact quite competent sailing machines if the crew know what to do.
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Old 22-10-2011, 09:28   #54
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

Multihulls need to reef early, and reef for the gusts. I tend to be conservative when I see a squall approach and drop/secure all sail before the gusts hit, and start the engine. In a squall or micro-burst you could be dealing with 70+ gusts. Why gamble? At night I'm even more conservative about reefing, because you can't read the water or clouds.

The reefing pattern on my boat (7/8 sloop rig) is genoa then main, then more genoa, then more main, then strike genoa, then strike main.
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Old 22-10-2011, 09:37   #55
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

when a squall heads your way shouldn't "get the shampoo out" be high up the list of things to do??

Or is that just a cruiser reaction
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Old 22-10-2011, 10:25   #56
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

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I see a squall approach and drop/secure all sail before the gusts hit, and start the engine.
All I can say about this approach is that if you follow it on a tropical ocean passage you will probably be motoring all night every night because random small squalls are common from sunset to about 4am. It seems to me better to figure out a way/procedure to act as a sailboat rather than a 'motor boat with a mast'. These offshore 'sudden' squalls are typically 20-30kts and the worst are typically 40kts.

We have spend quite a bit of time at sea and in fact have never experienced a surprise +70kt gust. We have seen those only close to shore and even there only very very infrequently and in situations where they could be anticipated (for instance katabatic winds, or the shore heat reinforced lightening squalls).
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Old 22-10-2011, 10:37   #57
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

chubascos off baja....sudden and strong. essentially without warning -- why i sailed with my chosen sail pattern.....mizzen and jib reefed, and main furled and covered. we still hit over 8 kts of boat speed, in my FORMOSA!...fun!!!!! they donot show on radar nor in weather programs.
the squalls and storms in gulf do have warnings and they are not difficult to predict once you know the patterns and symptoms....as for rest of world--havent been there to have done that yet------
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Old 23-10-2011, 09:26   #58
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

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So when a squall line is heading your direction and you feel that first wisp of ' really cold air' (I know you all know what I mean) what sail comes down first...the mainsail or the jib? And why?
Get the main down first. Hunter 25s don't sail very well with just the main. You boat will be more maneuverable with just the jib. If you have to dump your sheets or drop your jib, you can do it on any point of sail. Not so with the main.

I put reef points in my jib. As the wind increased I responded by reefing the main, striking the main, and reefing the jib. With roller furling you could do the same thing without reef points.

Fabbian
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Old 23-10-2011, 09:48   #59
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Red face Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

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Get the main down first. Hunter 25s don't sail very well with just the main. You boat will be more maneuverable with just the jib. If you have to dump your sheets or drop your jib, you can do it on any point of sail. Not so with the main.

I put reef points in my jib. As the wind increased I responded by reefing the main, striking the main, and reefing the jib. With roller furling you could do the same thing without reef points.

Fabbian
I'd really suggest not sailing any boat into a heavy squall with just the jib up. The center of effort is to far forward and the boat is extremly out of balance. If you're layed-over to the spreaders it's going to be very difficult for your boat to regain its footing with just the jib.

But then I would not like to be in a 40 knot squall with microburst, in a Hunter 25.
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Old 23-10-2011, 09:56   #60
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Re: Sailing in HEAVY Wind and Rain

we sailed a seidelman sloop 37 ft thru the thun der storms in g.o.m with only jib up. there was no problem. the winds measured 71 kts inside these and we only used jib. see what YOUR boat will do before taking the advice of others. it may well be the boat will behave JUST FINE under jib alone. the one we sailed did.
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