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Old 18-06-2009, 03:25   #16
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Others have mentioned it but Hellosailor has hit the nail on the head IMO. It is the reworking of untinned wire in years to come that is the biggest PITA for me.

There is no way that untinned wire is as easy to rework in the future as tinned wire. My experience is that old untinned multi-stranded wire in almost impossible to reterminate compared to old tinned wire. Even if it seems to be reterminated OK at the time of the rework, the terminations fail much sooner then reterminated old tinned wire.

Bottom line is, untinned wire will be satisfactory (at least in the short term), tinned wire will be better solution.

The additional cost of $10K seems to be BS, your contractors don't want to bother doing something outside their normal practice. I would be wondering about their attitude to the rest of the work; do you want the work done to your standard or to their standard.
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Old 18-06-2009, 05:02   #17
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I just replaced the wires in the mast on my boat. The ones I replaced were non tinned and had been in the boat for 29 years and apart from some discoloration in the plastic surround - were fine. The only reason I replaced them was because I replaced the masthead tri-light and thought I should - given their age. The wires I put in are non-tinned but they will certainly see me out!
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Old 18-06-2009, 06:21   #18
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Shiva was built in Holland in 85 and had a fair amount of untinned wires for interior lighting etc. Over the years I have done all the wiring with tinned, but have found that the removed wiring was sound except for some slight oxidation - no green crud.

I suspect tinned is superior, but in dry non critical circuits non tinned stranded well crimped and sealed will last decades.

I would use tinned stranded on all new and certainly critical circuits. Why not?

While there is vibration and this could lead to degradation of wiring, if your wiring is properly secured this vibration and movement is greatly reduced. Wiring to motors and pumps is the exception - it's hard to prevent vibration when connecting to pumps, motors and fans.

I am certain all my boat's wiring will outlast me!
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Old 18-06-2009, 09:46   #19
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a reality check:
My wholesale marine supplier offers 3 brands of tinned wire. They do not even offer untinned anymore. The three brands are Anchor, Almo and Cobra. Anchor is by far the most expensive. Almo is USCG, ABYC and UL compliant and type III. (Personally I would put more weight in the UL listing than USCG or ABYC.) A sample of prices on 14ga single wire is as follows: Anchor: $.26/ft, Almo/Cobra about $.15 per ft. I didnt find untinned SAE wire for less than the Almo price on-line in 500 ft spools. Conclusion: It looks to me like there may be no additional cost for tinned wire, but if your contractor is buying it really cheap somewhere there could be maybe a few cents per ft. The question is , even if it is untinned, is it really cheap wire, type I for instance? I dont know what size boat you have, but if there is a 1000 ft of wire in it, I dont think there should be more than a $50 difference in price..... another point is, I would use the appropriate size wire, not go oversize, just to go oversize. 10 gage wire terminations that fit a lot of buss bars and other things properly are hard to find. You may need 10 gage some places but you may need 14 gage in alot of places.
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Old 18-06-2009, 10:30   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
... I would use the appropriate size wire, not go oversize, just to go oversize. 10 gage wire terminations that fit a lot of buss bars and other things properly are hard to find. You may need 10 gage some places but you may need 14 gage in alot of places.
The same yellow crimp terminals are used for #10 as are used for #12 AWG.
All three terminal sizes are readily available.

Red Terminals are for #22 & #18 AWG wire with ring sizes from #4 to 5/16''
Blue Terminals are for #16 & #14 AWG wire with ring sizes from #4 to 3/8''
Yellow Terminals are for #12 & #10 AWG wire with ring sizes from #6 to 1/2''
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Old 18-06-2009, 10:40   #21
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Yea Gord, I didnt say they werent available, but for some reason, the yellow ones for #10 wire seem hard to find with a small enough ring to fit between some things. Not a big issue for sure... they just never seem to be in my terminal kit!
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Old 18-06-2009, 10:45   #22
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I have an electrical box (a big tackle box) with at least 50 in there. West Marine (Port Supply) is my source.
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Old 18-06-2009, 11:30   #23
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For some reason I nvever seem to have any yellows that fit between those little "stand up separators " on the buss bars..... Is it possible the yellow ones with #8 screws are larger OD than the blue ones for #8 screws?
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Old 18-06-2009, 11:43   #24
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Cheechako-It looks like you are using 20 amp terminal strips which don't have enough clearance between the separators for an AWG 10/12 (yellow) ring terminal. The 30 amp terminal strips have enough room between the separators to handle up to AWG 10/12 (yellow) ring terminals.
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Old 18-06-2009, 12:54   #25
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yea that may be it...

The problem is sometimes they are already in the boat and you have maybe one 10 gage wire going to a strip and the rest are smaller. I avoid the strips with the separators entirely if installing new! Kinda comes full circle and proves my point I guess, dont use 10 gage wire unless you need 10 gage wire! or ............maybe use all 10 gage wire and compatible fittings! But 10 gage is a hassle for VHF radios etc..... Let's face it, wiring is a nightmare any way you look at it,,,
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Old 18-06-2009, 13:47   #26
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If it wasn't a nightmare, everybody would be doing it...wait...sometimes I think everybody is doing it...but that is good for business too!!
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Old 18-06-2009, 14:07   #27
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Ah yes.... the voice of experience!
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Old 18-06-2009, 15:27   #28
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What kind of boat are you getting wired up? I'm amazed someone would charge $10,000 to wire a boat, let alone want $10,000 EXTRA for using the proper wire.
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Old 18-06-2009, 16:01   #29
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I just purchased some 0/1 tinned wire from genuinedealz.com. They had the least expensive tinned I could find and they did the heat shrinking and crimping. Had I read this thread before hand I might have gone with welding wire though.
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Old 18-06-2009, 16:14   #30
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Snboard976-Reading this thread leads you to consider 1/0 welding cable??? May I be so blunt as to suggest you read the whole thread? Welding wire is not: UL approved; CSA approved; is not boat cable (BC5W2); its insulation is rated at 75C or 60C; it is not tinned, is not AWG and is therefore has about 12% less copper than AWG 1/0 and its insulation is not impervious to oils and solvents. Other than that it is really great stuff...for welding. :0)
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