LA Battery Report

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=gauvins;2917113]Interesting facts.

I was wondering if we can get an idea of FLA's health by looking at voltage.

/QUOTE]

Of course you can. It wouldn't be a true measurement, but an "idea" is pretty easy. I knew my last set was starting to go because the morning voltages started becoming lower, but I wasn't using more. There are lots of charts around with voltage/state of charge. The devil is in the details for using those and I wouldn't type it all out so just look it up.

[KTP]

I have some four year old Lifelines that were used in our RV and probably got kind of hot during the summer (well I know they did since the BMS on the inverter said the batteries were 110 F quite often)

I have had them out and in the house on the floor for the past four months and they were at 12.58V after that time. I charged and equalized them to try and improve it but after 6 hours at 15.5v they settle back down to 12.7 volts. Have not done a capacity check but I suspect they are nearing EOL. My new non temperature abused Lifelines stay above 13 volts after a charge.

[leftbrainstuff]

Firefly carbon foam. This technology is far superior than all the other lead acid technology.

Their production quality is also much better than the other so called quality batteries we've been using.

Also solar is cheap and reliable and we only use good quality mppt charge controllers and balmar alternators and regulators.

[a64pilot]

I’m wanting to know about this 5 Ah a night refrigeration.
Seems a little hard to believe.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by KTP

I have some four year old Lifelines that were used in our RV and probably got kind of hot during the summer (well I know they did since the BMS on the inverter said the batteries were 110 F quite often)



I have had them out and in the house on the floor for the past four months and they were at 12.58V after that time. I charged and equalized them to try and improve it but after 6 hours at 15.5v they settle back down to 12.7 volts. Have not done a capacity check but I suspect they are nearing EOL. My new non temperature abused Lifelines stay above 13 volts after a charge.

Call Lifeline, they can tell you and would likely be more knowledgeable than any of us.
My initial belief is you need a cap check to be sure, but it doesn’t sound good.

You can get a rough idea of health by using Lifelines chart that shows depth of discharge as a voltage when the bank is under a load. That will get you close.
Also if you have a smart gauge and first thing in the morning it says your at 75% soc, then of course multiplying the number of AH used by four will give you a decent idea of banks capacity.

Neither of these methods will replace an honest cap check, just even if I had the equipment, which I don’t want to carry around cruising, how can I go without power for a couple of days to do a cap check?

A cap check seems ideal if you only weekend sail and can take the batteries to an expert or do it at home yourself, then take the bank back to the boat on Friday.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your point is another fallacy that’s often repeated. Our 450ah 24v bank is now 8 years old and has endured much abuse. I was having problems with it two weeks ago regarding voltage which would have had most on this forum replace the entire bank. With some quick easy testing on my part, I determined that only one Trojan T105 six volt was bad. I replaced the single battery and now all is fine.

If your bank is eight years old and you have had one collapse you will more than likely need to replace the lot before long.

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by mat jam

Just wanted to give an update to those thinking batteries. After two years with LA batteries which after the first season had lost much capacity due to only running the diesel for an hour everyday. The following year added 220w of solar panels and was at full charge 12.8 down to 12.4 overnight. After leaving the boat on the hard over the year with panels charging the batteries they are 100%. I am at 13.4 and down to12.7 overnight.

Discussions with my electician (yes I use an electrician for insurance/liability reason) whose experience was the LA batts he supplies on average last about 7 years. Lots of insight into batts I will not add nor the make I use because I do not want to get into a flame war. I have decided to stick with my LA since the numbers speak for themselves.

Whoopie, so your point is ?

[bcboomer]

Firefly, no need to hit 100%, no need to limit to 50%.
Plus all the advantages of AGM.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Firefly, no need to hit 100%, no need to limit to 50%.
Plus all the advantages of AGM.

Demand in North America so high they don't seem to be available in the EU

Pete

[Trimaran Ken]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Firefly carbon foam. This technology is far superior than all the other lead acid technology.

Firefly is a better form of AGM, and all AGMs are obsolete technology.

Depending you your needs, you should either go with LA or LiFePO4.

LA is cheaper for many applications, and LiFePO4 is far better than any AGM if you willing or needing to spend more money for something better.

What I have is a 105 AH 12 volt Group 31. Four of them can be hooked together in either series or parallel. I'm not sure what options are available if you need more power than that. I have run some mostly scientific tests on mine and it performed better than specs.

It is an absolute MUST to have one with a built in Battery Management System. It eliminates all the guess work and protects itself from anything stupid you might try to do to it.

You should be able to get one for less than $800, and it will well outlast any battery with lead in it.

Ken
===

[john61ct]

If by LA you mean flooded (FLA) you're not wrong about the better value but in practice that only applies in the NA market.

AGM is hardly obsolete, and FF are a great choice in many cases.

And plenty of LFP users do just fine with no BMS, plenty of cheap BMS have caused more harm than good. At this stage there are many variations and opinions how best to manage LFP, not a topic domain for "one true way" believers.

Note I am definitely not recommending going bareback, just cautioning against dogma.

[KTP]

I am going to take a guess here that AGM outsells LiFePO4 by about 1000 to 1.

Probably a bit early to call it obsolete.

[Trimaran Ken]

Originally Posted by KTP

I am going to take a guess here that AGM outsells LiFePO4 by about 1000 to 1.
Probably a bit early to call it obsolete.

I was talking technical, not marketing. People will be using AGM for many years to come. That doesn't mean that buying an AGM is the best choice. A lot of people are buying AGM now, even though FLA makes more sense for their application. On one hand, it takes a long time for people to become comfortable with new technology, on the other hand some people just go out and buy something new because they think newer is always better. Me, I'm more of a cost/benefit analysis kind of guy, but I never buy into new tech until it is proven. In my estimation, LiFePO4 has just reached the proven stage.

My guess is that AGMs will be almost completely gone in 10 years, but 10 years is a really long time in terms of technology.

[a64pilot]

So long as automobiles have a 12V battery, AGM will stick around, because quite often it’s the best car battery.
Cars batteries probably outsell well, just about any other battery.

[KTP]

We bought AGM because our batteries are packed away in a low part of the boat and watering is what you do to plants.