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Old 01-02-2015, 06:47   #151
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

I have not seen any bad information given on this thread. I have seen people doggedly stick to a pedantic belief in something - and when shown over and over with actual facts and evidence that they are not correct, they just start warning people about the "dangers" of not following their unexplained dogma instead of addressing the actual issue with facts and evidence.

The only thing bad so far has been certain posters demanding unquestioned authority in matters.

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Old 01-02-2015, 07:19   #152
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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Old 01-02-2015, 11:31   #153
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Sailor Chic

I guess you are the winner.

How does that make you feel?

Now I'm guessing that everyone will now refute the boat cable.

For the sailorchick cable.

Whatever standard that is?

Good Luck.

Lloyd
I'm just quoting from 33cfr which is the US CODE, I'm quoting from. Just keeping things honest and open. There is no question that UL1426 is a standard for boat cable. Though it does not require tinned wire.

Its designed around SAE J1127. UL1426 really is just a standard for testing insulation with a few more tests then is listed for J1127, which is the standard of which the conductors listed in UL1426 are made.

Always glad to help
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:22   #154
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

Amazing that a "standards" war broke out over the question of cabling to an inverter. But all good. It's a good topic to play out. I won't speak to the wire standards as I can't add anything more to the skirmishes, and it wouldn't matter anyway to the skirmishees and the skirmishers.

But a couple of points:

I like tinned wire, not because it is "required" by any standard, but just because in my experience it does not corrode as fast or as much as non-tinned wire - UNLESS - the untinned wire is sealed so as to not be exposed to the corrosive atmosphere and environment on boats. If it's 100% sealed it really doesn't matter.

Closed end lugs/terminals have to be used to reliably seal a cable. Putting wire sealant on the end of an open lug will just not hold up. No one suggested that but just an observation as I have seen it regularly. But I have reluctantly put it on existing cables when I have found them a few times. In that case I caution the owner to check the cables often, just like you would any cable. Nothing wrong with using lugs from the auto parts store if they are good quality. I hope no one will use solder as a way to close the end of open lugs!

Proper heat shrink is required for proper sealing.

Regarding pre-ordering cables: obviously too short is a problem. Less obvious is that too long cables, sometimes by even one inch can be the difference between getting a cable on a battery in a box or not, especially between batteries in close quarters. Sometimes you just don't have the room.

Often, the orientation of the lugs (how twisted from horizontal) is critical as well. I have had to remake shorter and even medium length cables when the lugs don't match up with the orientation of the two ends. You'll know it when you see it. You can put more twist on more flexible cables but it is still a torsion that will work to loosen the seal on the cables.

The extra inch or inches on longer cables that sneak from compartment to compartment, or across an engine room, can usually be oriented so the extra length is not a problem. May be even put in a drip loop. Drip loops are always nice, even for large cables, but many times just not convenient. But if the cable is well sealed it is not as critical as for smaller, open-ended wiring. Whatever the orientation, you should only tighten the cable nut down at the stud AFTER the cable is run so as to not put a force on it that will work to untighten the connection. Don't laugh - I have seen this more than once.

Just the way I found that works for me when the orientation matters: I put on one lug (loose and not crimped) and then lay it down where it needs to go and mark where it needs to be cut taking in to account the length of the lug and how much cable goes in to it. After I trim the insulation, I put put both loose lugs on it and lay it back down on where it goes. I think through if another cable lug has to go on top or on the bottom of the stud. Sometimes you can't fit them both on the same way.

Then I make a pen mark on both the lugs and the cable insulation to make sure I crimp them in the same orientation as I laid them down. I have saved a ton of time and money doing this. Every time I think I can just eyeball it, I regret it. I guess I am just not spacially adept enough to just eyeball it.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:38   #155
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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Just the way I found that works for me when the orientation matters: I put on one lug (loose and not crimped) and then lay it down where it needs to go and mark where it needs to be cut taking in to account the length of the lug and how much cable goes in to it. After I trim the insulation, I put put both loose lugs on it and lay it back down on where it goes. I think through if another cable lug has to go on top or on the bottom of the stud. Sometimes you can't fit them both on the same way.

Then I make a pen mark on both the lugs and the cable insulation to make sure I crimp them in the same orientation as I laid them down. I have saved a ton of time and money doing this. Every time I think I can just eyeball it, I regret it. I guess I am just not spacially adept enough to just eyeball it.
What an excellent post. Using a pen to mark the orientation of the lug is such a lovely idea. It solves a problem I've been having anyway. It was worth butting heads with LLoyd, just for that gem.

FYI, I like tinned wire too.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:44   #156
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

A marking pen?


But, only an ANSI-specified UL-complaint marine grade marking pen, suitable for use in enclosed spaces with caustic vapors, right?


(GD&R)
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Old 01-02-2015, 13:09   #157
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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A marking pen?


But, only an ANSI-specified UL-complaint marine grade marking pen, suitable for use in enclosed spaces with caustic vapors, right?


(GD&R)
Yep! That's exactly what I use. It is 5x more expensive than that non-standard marking pens you can get at Office Depot but it's lasts for at least 100yrs in normal use, even if used next to the toilet, which is just about as corrosive as it gets. ANSI/UL is okay but there are pens that meet higher standards that are even more expensive. But I only use those when I can charge them to the poor, clueless, saps we call customers.
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Old 01-02-2015, 13:15   #158
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

Marking the insulation voids the UL approval.
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Old 01-02-2015, 13:38   #159
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

I use the special proper specification marking pens to write "REEL BOTE WYER" on my welding cable. It totally fools everyone and although the pen costs more, overall the savings are significant.

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Old 01-02-2015, 13:44   #160
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I use the special proper specification marking pens to write "REEL BOTE WYER" on my welding cable. It totally fools everyone and although the pen costs more, overall the savings are significant.

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Old 01-02-2015, 15:05   #161
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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I use the special proper specification marking pens to write "REEL BOTE WYER" on my welding cable. It totally fools everyone and although the pen costs more, overall the savings are significant.

Mark
How do you write on black cable?
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Old 01-02-2015, 15:11   #162
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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How do you write on black cable?
Myself I might use red or copper fingernail polish.

Others might use a old bottle of whiteout or that special marine grade UL astm white marker pen. One could even get fancy and put a piece of masking tape around the wire and mark on that.

Easy Peasy
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Old 01-02-2015, 15:16   #163
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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How do you write on black cable?
Usually in cursive using the special marine pen in my right hand.

And I use a black ink. The only requirement is that it is correctly labelled. There is nothing at all in the CRFMULPTDXTC462 regulations that says it needs to be a contrasting color.

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Old 01-02-2015, 15:19   #164
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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One could even get fancy and put a piece of masking tape around the wire and mark on that.
I make all my connections with masking tape because I can never find the correct size wrench in my Fischer-Price set for those stupid terminal bolts. This idea just saved me an extra step - thanks!

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Old 01-02-2015, 15:42   #165
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Re: Batt To Inverter Cable Length Question

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I make all my connections with masking tape because I can never find the correct size wrench in my Fischer-Price set for those stupid terminal bolts. This idea just saved me an extra step - thanks!

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