Any experience with the new high capacity 400W plus solar panels?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Guy

What does that mean? The chart says panels operate at -100-125 C. Way colder than down here

Actually I see an operating range of -100 to a + 125 c. So would be a 225° range of operation

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Guy

Oh no I was talking about the temp rise will make panels less efficient. I'm not going to live long enough to worry myself.

What temp rise?

[model 10]

Originally Posted by StuM

What temp rise?

Ah, global warming. 1.5 deg per year till we die. So this will decrease solar panel output at about the same rate they increase output?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Temperatures of solar panels on satellites are usually fairly close to what we see on earth. Space is cold, but vacuum is a very poor conductor of heat.

True, but a little misleading in your explanation.
Space is neither hot nor cold. A vacuum has no temperature.

Put an object in space and it can only gain or lose heat by radiation. So the key factors are the distance and temperature of energy sources. (combined with the albedo of the object - how much energy it absorbs versus reflects).

Since satellites are at approximately the same distance from the primary heat source (the sun) as the earth, simple radiation physics would suggest that they must be approximately the same temperature as the earth (ignoring albedo variation)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Guy

Ah, global warming. 1.5 deg per year till we die. So this will decrease solar panel output at about the same rate they increase output?

ROTFLMAO!

1.5 deg per year? You really have drunk the Koolaid have't you.
Even Al Gore isn't that crazy.

Somehow I seem to have missed that 22 degrees increase in temperature so far this century. And so have all the scientists.

Let me let you into a secret. The best estimates of the TOTAL temperature increase since the end of the Little Ice Age back in the 1850s are less than 1.5 degrees ( F or C). And best estimates of the TOTAL temperature rise this Century are to all intents and purposes, a big fat ZERO.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=StuM;1962615]ROTFLMAO!

1.5 deg per year? You really have drunk the Koolaid have't you.
Even Al Gore isn't that crazy.

Somehow I seem to have missed that 22 degrees increase in temperature so far this century. And so have all the scientists.

You think things have not changed in the last 100 years? I admit to hyperbole but don't stick your head in the sand.

[newhaul]

Stu actually the climatologists are estimating that the 1.5 degree part is correct however it is in the last 100 years not as guy misquoted. So about 1.5 per century

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Guy

Ah, global warming. 1.5 deg per year till we die. So this will decrease solar panel output at about the same rate they increase output?

Actually guy you miss quoted the numbers it is about 1.5°f per century not per year.

[Paul Elliott]

Please, let's not turn a useful solar panel discussion into a climate-change free-for-all!

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by StuM

True, but a little misleading in your explanation.
Space is neither hot nor cold. A vacuum has no temperature.

Put an object in space and it can only gain or lose heat by radiation. So the key factors are the distance and temperature of energy sources. (combined with the albedo of the object - how much energy it absorbs versus reflects).

Since satellites are at approximately the same distance from the primary heat source (the sun) as the earth, simple radiation physics would suggest that they must be approximately the same temperature as the earth (ignoring albedo variation)

You are correct. A vacuum has no intrinsic temperature. Here's an excerpt from a relevant article(How Cold is Space?):

Let’s look close to home, in orbit around the planet, at the International Space Station.

A piece of bare metal in space, under constant sunlight can get as hot as two-hundred-sixty (260) degrees Celsius. This is dangerous to astronauts who have to work outside the station.

If they need to handle bare metal, they wrap it in special coatings or blankets to protect themselves.

And yet, in the shade, an object will cool down to below -100 degrees Celsius.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Guy

Oh no I was talking about the temp rise will make panels less efficient. I'm not going to live long enough to worry myself.

Scientists are now saying we are entering a global cooling period becaus ed of the decrease in sun activity.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Scientists are now saying we are entering a global cooling period becaus ed of the decrease in sun activity.

I know, When I went to school they warned of global cooling. All the clouds and smog etc. would reflect the sun and the earth would freeze. Now it's the other way around, maybe. You say they are going back the other way now?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Guy

I know, When I went to school they warned of global cooling. All the clouds and smog etc. would reflect the sun and the earth would freeze. Now it's the other way around, maybe. You say they are going back the other way now?

You see, that's the problem with alarmists of any ilk. They love to extrapolate short term trends as straight lines into the distant future.

Climate doesn't work like that. As forcings change, different emergent phenomena become more dominate and feedbacks are essentially negative. If that were not so on any reasonable time scale, earth would have becomes a lifeless chunk of rock many times over.

[GoingWalkabout]

Guy, StuM is correct IMHO. I remember learning in elementary school that Greenland was called same because at one stage it was covered with trees. Of course the change occurred pre-industrial age. Guy, your recollection of what you were told in your youth about global cooling was of course correct. I remember being told the same. And yes it is now global warming. Watch. They will soon change the story back to global cooling. All this is being driven by hucksters driven by a variety of self motivations. One thing that is common with all, is their complete detachment from reality. And I don't listen to a word from so called scientists who survive and become wealthy from Government grants. They are like the scientists of Europe centuries ago who relied on the patronage of the church. That's why they said the earth was flat and they wanted to kill mathematicians like Galileo. A wise saying is while everything changes everything stays the same.

Getting back to solar pannels. I don't think we have to worry about the sun getting too hot or cold for us to be able to effectively harvest the suns rays for the next 1,000 years. And if then it became a problem I'm sure we will propably have worked out how to harvest another energy source such a fusion or hydrogen or something unthought of to date.

All energy is connected to atomic and sub atomic vibration. In my opinion we have not even scratched the surface on future energy solutions. But that is a conversation for another time.

Solar has progressed tremendously over even the past five years. I'm happy to see greater power now out of same size pannels brought about by better construction, better materials etc. This I am sure will continue.

It looks like 300 to 400 Watt panels from SunPower are winers. Does anyone have knowledge of another such manufacturer? Better or the same.

[Zil]

Do solar panels still work for those that don't believe science.