Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-05-2015, 21:04   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Indies
Boat: Burger 74' motor yacht, 65 foot 12 metre, Flicka and sailing dinghy
Posts: 635
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Calder has it right when he suggests sub-panels. It is so much easier to wire and to trace problems.



Why can't things remain where i carelessly left them?
__________________

__________________
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
dohenyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 08:29   #32
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Use separate individual grounds run to a common ground bus, not numerous ground buses.
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 09:23   #33
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,049
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dohenyboy View Post
Calder has it right when he suggests sub-panels. It is so much easier to wire and to trace problems.
That I think is ideal, but possibly not warrantied on smaller, simpler boats.
But there seem to be far more electrical items now on a boat compared to say 30 yrs ago though, I think a lot of us are running out of panel space, I like home run circuits, I dis-like sneak circuits, but home runs require a lot of breakers, hence the sub panel.
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 10:55   #34
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Running a dedicated ground to each device can prevent some esoteric problems like ground loops, but that's normally not a concern on a small boat. Lots of extra wires, extra costs, extra weight, all NEEDLESS, really.


You might consider a compromise if you are worried about efficiency an reliability. Run a separate ground wire for each subsystem, i.e. one to a common point for the instruments (which are usually near each other), one to the helm, on up each side of the boat for the port/starboard cabin lights, perhaps on for the mast lights....


Failure of the ground bus isn't, or should be, a major concern if your wiring is at all competent. Striping the wires, also not a concern if you are using an automatic wire stripper, which can spread back the insulation without cutting the wire, make a splice and cover much neater and stronger and quicker afterwards. Or a vampire tap of any kind. A hot wax glue gun can be used to secure those splices to the hull, so they are protected from movement and chafe as well.


If you want to run duplex all over...bear in mind, you won't be able to use ABYC color coding, or any other kind, for your wiring. Duplex will invariably be red and black, or red and yellow, and all look the same. Either way, generous use of a Brother P-Touch can help you keep them sorted out for future reference.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 11:00   #35
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
...Lots of extra wires, extra costs, extra weight, all NEEDLESS, really...
Where do you come up with this stuff?
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 12:30   #36
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Do me a favor, tn, go to the user controls in the forum, add me to your ignore list, and make us both happier. 'bye.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 13:26   #37
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Your previous post qualified you for wiring advice ignore.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 15:19   #38
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 703
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Use separate individual grounds run to a common ground bus, not numerous ground buses.
Agreed!

What turned out most convenient for me was running duplex color coded but wth single stud common ground pts at strategic places so as to make use of heavier guage return to grounded bus at switch board.
Only one actual ground point, but several "nodes", to avoid loops.
__________________
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2015, 23:14   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Cbreeze
Posts: 346
Re: 12V Negative - Shared or Per-Circuit?

Sub panels with a common feed and return make a lot of sense (electrically and economically). Usually all circuits are not drawing at the same time so the voltage drop is less. I build small panels with a little black box (from our dearly departed Radio Shack), three or four breakers and a ground bus no big effort.

My little 32 ft IP has 4 in addition to the original rather generous IP panel. Bow equipment, steering pedestal electronics, navigation station, and the 30 amp engine feed.

Commercial buildings have been wired that way for years.

Frankly
__________________

__________________
Frankly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
12v positive and 24v negative possible? heintje23 Marine Electronics 17 27-07-2013 20:11
Looking For A 12v Button That Will Close The Circuit For X Seconds rebel heart Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 20 13-08-2012 09:45
For Sale: Watermaker Katadyn Powersurvivor 80 E 12V 3.5 gallons per hour Svbigfun Classifieds Archive 6 01-07-2012 14:58
What Are You Paying per Foot per Month? David M General Sailing Forum 56 09-04-2010 10:10



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.