400: Lagoon 400

[hanafe]

Hi Peter,
thanks for the pictures. Very nice.
We have the sames sliding door bolt. Our problem was that the the holes in the top part of the frame did not fit to the bolt shich is pushed up by the lock.
The second problem was that the key did not match the lock!! They sent a new lock with a new set of keys!
I like your ladder. Hope it works better than ours. We bought some (cheap) grap. Ours is always twisting when you put weight on it.

HanaFe

[peterp]

Thanks Mark. Regards Peter

[Garold]

Hanafe

Regarding the cockpit/saloon door.

When our boat was handed over the gap between the door and the lower part of the door jamb when it was closed was large enough to pass a magazine through!

We alerted our agent who organised for one of their technicians to do some adjustment and straighten it.

However, it still puzzled me why it was not identified and sorted out beforehand either at the factory, or anywhere along it's commissioning process.

I agree with Peter, that things seem to get better as the production numbers increase but I can't understand why they allow smaller faults to occur, and to give us guys so much potentially sales-damaging content for dicusssion. Especially when many of them are minor quality control items e.g. trim, adjustment, finishing.

Very few people seem to have major issues with Lagoon. If they could just 'up their game' on quality control, I would guess that it would give us less to whinge about and maybe give them a bit of a sales boost.

Got to go because we are staying on the boat this weekend, and incredibly for the UK we have a pleasant sunny day in the middle of winter, at a weekend. So we will be getting out on the water for brief shake out of the sails etc today.

Cheers

Garold

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Garold

...However, it still puzzled me why it was not identified and sorted out beforehand either at the factory, or anywhere along it's commissioning process.

...but I can't understand why they allow smaller faults to occur, and to give us guys so much potentially sales-damaging content for dicusssion. Especially when many of them are minor quality control items e.g. trim, adjustment, finishing...

Cheers

Garold

I couldn't agree with you more Garold.

It also makes you wonder if small (and visible) faults are allowed to pass their quality control, what about the hidden and/or more serious system critical components. How many of these sub-standard qualities are let through?

Being a novice, I also get the impression that its accepted by the industry (& owners) that they (owners) do all the quality control post delivery. Just like you guys (Garold, Hanafe, & Peterp) are now doing with you new pride and joy.

Peterp, thank you for all you pix. It helps someone like me who's a visual person.

Garold, fair winds to you on your sailing day.

[yme_bosma]

Next week we hope to close the deal for a new 400 to be picked up in Les Sables in June before we sail it back to Holland. As we are finalizing our list of options on top of the Cruising package, I was wondering if any of you had feedback on these questions:

• Are you satisfied with the ventilators in the cabins and salon?
• Are you satisfied with the standard batteries (gel or non-gel) Lagoon installed?
• Are you satisfied with the folding props together with 40HP Yanmar upgrade?
• Are you satisfied with the furling gennaker as part of the Cruising package?
• In general, do you regret not ordering a particular option? And if so, why?

Thanks in advance!

[hanafe]

• Are you satisfied with the ventilators in the cabins and salon? YES
• Are you satisfied with the standard batteries (gel or non-gel) Lagoon installed? TOO EARLY TO SAY, SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT AFTER 1.5 YEARS ALL BATTERIES SHOULD BE STILL FINE
• Are you satisfied with the folding props together with 40HP Yanmar upgrade? YES, BUT REVERSE THRUST WEAK AS ON ALL FOLDING PROPS.
• Are you satisfied with the furling gennaker as part of the Cruising package? BOUGHT MY OWN WITH WHICH I AM NOT HAPPY

In general, do you regret not ordering a particular option? And if so, why?

I REGRET TO HAVE ORDERED TO MANY OPTIONS WHICH ARE HARDLY USED.
ICEMAKER IS COMPLETE USELESS, WE TOOK OUT OF THE BOT ALREADY. IT WAS MAINLY BROKEN AND WHEN IT WORKED IT TOOK AT LEAST 4 HOURS (GENERATOR OR SHOREPOWER) TO GET VERY LITTLE ICE.
ONLY PUT IN WHAT YOU ARE REALLY GOING TO USE ON A REGUALR BASE

[peterp]

Hello Yme_bosma, in reply,

• Are you satisfied with the ventilators in the cabins and salon?

I assume you mean the air /heating ducts, I have only used the heating a couple of times but they seem to work fine.

• Are you satisfied with the standard batteries (gel or non-gel) Lagoon installed?

I have the gel batteries no problems so far.

• Are you satisfied with the folding props together with 40HP Yanmar upgrade?

With respect to normal motoring I don’t have experience on any other sort of prop to make a comparison however I think they are fine. We all know that mooring the beast can be the real challenge, I have a tight marina berth to back into with a big cruiser moored opposite me with a deadly looking anchor sticking out just waiting to tear into my shiny gel coat, it can be quite tricky turning in reverse using asymmetric thrust, good prop response going from reverse to foreword then back again with gentle power adjustments several times in the manoeuvring process is critical to a successful berthing, I have found the props very good in this respect so much so that I now have high level of confidence mooring and manouvering, if the props did not work well I would be in real trouble. I took delivery last October and have just ticked over sixty hours on the engines. Garold I think has fixed blade props I am sure he would give his view on those.

• Are you satisfied with the furling gennaker as part of the Cruising package?

• I did order the gennaker hardware but not the gennaker I had a screecher made localy instead to suit the hardware which works fine except when it’s time to furl. I will try and explain, the furler for the gennaker is powered by a never ending line from the furler and reaches to about the cabin windows to a small pulley which one has to hand pull to furl in the sail, that works guickly and well however this is very much a two man operation because I am up the front furling the sail by hand, my better halve is way back in the stern on the starboard winch letting out the sheet hopefully keeping just the right amount of tension on the sheet to match me on the furler the problem is I cannot see her as I am looking at the furler and making sure the sail furls correctly, and she cannot hear me yelling out instructions with the wind noise etc. now the screecher is a big sail and can be a handful if things go wrong, I must confess I may have been guilty of swearing at she who must be obeyed when the first time we attempted to furl the screecher we finished up with a big wine glass up the front couldent fix it till back in the marina, however we now have gained some skills in the art of furling the screecher and we are a bit more choosy wind wise when we furl. Now I can answers your last question.
• In general, do you regret not ordering a particular option? And if so, why?

I have electric winches on everything including the tender, fantastic aids, if it was available for the above reasons particularly trimming the screecher I would have ordered the starboard winch in electric. I have attached a couple of photo’s which may help clarification.
As always just my thoughts, hope this helps, good luck with your ordering process.
Regards Peter

[peterp]

To add bit more re options on the Lagoon 400, I agree with Hanafe, options are expensive and one doesent want to over order, I diden't order the ice maker thank goodness mainly due to the feedback from our group when at the ordering stage, the big ticket item from the factory is the 7 KVA genset with the reverse cycle air con, that I thought about long and hard, finally I felt for us we would find it really nice to have, we are in the cooler part of Australia so last winter it was nice to turn on the heater on the odd cold night, the air con we are yet to use here in Melbourne but we will, also we hope to go north in the future where it can be very hot and humid so I am sure it will be nice to have there. The other thing is the gen set very handy gadget to have to charge batteries and run electrical tools etc. and maybe run a water maker down the track. I would also recommend the factory solar cells I very rarely have to use shore power, also run two fridges 24/7. Now that was a difficult decision, does one order a fridge and a freezer or two fridges I chose the latter which has worked well for us, don’t forget the fridges have a freezer each in the top, small but take a suprising amount of stuff, also where the icemaker option fits below the steering station that will take a good sized freezer so if you don’t take the icemaker option one can fit a freezer there, for us we haven’t the need but that can be easily fitted later if more freezer space required, at the moment we use that storage space for lifejackets. Regards Peter

[yme_bosma]

Thanks Peter and Hanafe. Except for the Cruising package and some small additional items we have chosen no big ticket items, since most of them can be installed afterwards when you really know what you need. The Cruising package only offers one electric winch, but the others can be converted later if needed, at a certain cost of course...

As for the solar panels, I thought they were a bit expensive to have them factory installed, so the dealer will take care of those for a far better price and place them on top of the bimini on starboard side instead of on the davits.

Again, thanks for the feedback, and for this thread which has been really helpful in the process.

[Lucky Larry]

Yme,

I wish that I'd gotten the electric winches and the deck wash options. I went with one fridge and one freezer and don't regret it but that's based on how we use it. The gel batteries have worked fine. We also went with the genaker setup but a local screacher.

[yme_bosma]

Larry, you have no electric winches, or just one (coming with the Cruising package)?

You're right about the fridges/freezer, depends on how you use it. Since we are both vegetarians we hardly have a use for a freezer, so we decided to start with just the standard 120L fridge. Allowing for more storage as well.

Why did you decide to go for a local screacher instead of the sail Lagoon provides?

[Lucey Blue]

Originally Posted by hanafe

• Are you satisfied with the ventilators in the cabins and salon? YES
• Are you satisfied with the standard batteries (gel or non-gel) Lagoon installed? TOO EARLY TO SAY, SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT AFTER 1.5 YEARS ALL BATTERIES SHOULD BE STILL FINE
• Are you satisfied with the folding props together with 40HP Yanmar upgrade? YES, BUT REVERSE THRUST WEAK AS ON ALL FOLDING PROPS.
• Are you satisfied with the furling gennaker as part of the Cruising package? BOUGHT MY OWN WITH WHICH I AM NOT HAPPY

In general, do you regret not ordering a particular option? And if so, why?

I REGRET TO HAVE ORDERED TO MANY OPTIONS WHICH ARE HARDLY USED.
ICEMAKER IS COMPLETE USELESS, WE TOOK OUT OF THE BOT ALREADY. IT WAS MAINLY BROKEN AND WHEN IT WORKED IT TOOK AT LEAST 4 HOURS (GENERATOR OR SHOREPOWER) TO GET VERY LITTLE ICE.
ONLY PUT IN WHAT YOU ARE REALLY GOING TO USE ON A REGUALR BASE

Hi Hanaf and Peter,

I am interested in your comment(s) on gennakers and wondering what kind of furling hardware you are both using, the best luff tension based on your experience and a realistic wind range for the sail etc. We have an older Lagoon 42 TPI and are actively considering a new code zero or gennaker - see attached for design dimensions. The plan is to use a Harken Maxi staysail furler (Part number 1899) rather than an endless furler to save money. But a new gennaker is a big investment so any advice would be greatly appreciated.



Cheers
Nick

[peterp]

Check carefully where you fit the solar panels if you decide to fit them on the coach roof, you wiil have to avoid walking on them when you zip up the sail bag, just a thought. The factory package I got in the deal they are very good, three 130w panels on a good frame out of the way of everything on the davitts and not far to run the wires, maybe you can make it a deal breaker with your dealer. Regards Peter

[paulrack]

I don't have a lagoon, but also have a new 40ft cat so always read the Lagoon 400 threads with interest. On your questions I can give my experience on two generic items, the props and the screecher.

I went for folding props on my Volvo40's. I was very concerned about the reverse thrust performance, but also wanted good forward thrust. My previous monohull had a maxprop which gave great reverse and "ok" forward thrust. After much research I took the plunge with three bladed flexold propellors. Flexofold in Denmark (I think) were very helpful in speccing the correct size and seem to have it spot on. I have no problem in reverse, I often have to come into my berth quite aggressively as I often have a strong wind across my mooring. It is no problem to stop the boat very quickly. When reversing out I have great response and power. If I ever got another boat I would definitely get the same props.

On the screecher I would say it is a great buy, I use mine a lot and it is awesome from 3 knots to about 15 to 20 knots depending on your angle. I would get one made by a good sailmaker. You are spending a lot of money on Facnor furlers and all the hardware and you need to make sure the sail works and is built properly. The sails I have seen from Lagoon are all a bit cheap. Discuss with the sailmaker the winds you sail in and the angle range you want. I used North sails in CT and they were awesome. They designed the sail to meet what I needed out of it and they were spot on. I could design my own pattern as well. They came out on the boat fine tuned everything, marked the halyards to get the correct tension etc. It is key to use a 2:1 halyard of low stretch and to make sure the halyard is not twisted in itself, otherwise it will twist when you hoist it and it will be a bitch to get it down. The correct luff tension is key to it furling properly. A friend had a screecher built by another sailmaker and cannot furl it properly. I am sure that the twin luffrope in the sail is not correct, that is a frustration!.

[hanafe]

We are using a Facnor endless furler. The furler is of very good quality.
Our sail is not perfectly to furl as the the cut is not very straight. The top part is not completly furling in. I believe a mistake by the sailmaker, as on my former boat I had a furling genaker from Elvstroem which furled very well in deed.
The tension of the luff for furling needs to be quiet tight.
Good angels for the sail are the classical one, from around 60 degree to 110 degree apparent.
It adds a lot of power to the boat.
HanaFe