Mahe 36: Rudders - Steering

[Dragon Lady]

Yeah great tip works a treat, thanks

[lstyles]

Does anyone have the part number for the steering cable for the Mahe? I am not near my boat.
thanks,
Lori

[MKB53]

Hi All

My steering was also getting tighter. I have just slipped for the annual antifoul and following Rozzies issues got the yard to address this while she was up.

They had a lot of trouble getting the starboard shaft to drop but the port was easy and clean. They cleaned up a "little" corrosion on the starboard lower end. As we have 5 years in the water I guess the tropic where Rozzie is are a lot harsher!

The yards feedback was:
a) The top bearings were fine
b) The bottom bearing is a self aligning "Ball" that fits into the socket in the base of the tube. They clean up most the corrosion but this ball mechanism was siezed on Stbd and could not be freed.
As it was all "aligned" already they were able to reassemble and it is fine now until the next slip and the steering is not stiff.
c) Their recommendation is that both lower units be replaced on the next slipping.
d) THEY SAY THAT AS THE TUBE AND SCREW-IN SOCKET ARE ALUMINIUM THE AREA AROUND THE SHAFT EXIT SHOULD HAVE AN ALUMINIUM ANTIFOUL APPLIED AND NOT COPPER BASED A/F! Same as around the leg.

I do not fully understand how the lower bearing works but will get hold of an exploded view and find out. The comment about anti foul makes sense though. No-one has suggested this before and the initial factory A/F coat was certainly normal copper based stuff.

Interested in what anyone has heard on this score.

In the meanwhile I will talk to our agents about this and the lower unit details but I now have a patch of Alu A/F round each rudder shaft exit.

Cheers
Martin

[Cotemar]

Martin,

Here is what the rudder bearings look.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post669906

[MKB53]

Many thanks for the info Mark

[Ascension]

Hi all

We currently have Ascension hard standing in St Lucia, and before haulout we noticed the steering was progressively becoming tighter. After reading MKB53 and Rozzie's posts I decided to drop the rudders and investigate.

The rudders were reasonably easy to remove after working back and forth. The two lower Ertalyte knuckle bearings on the other hand were well and truly seized in the aluminium housings.

After persevering with phos acid, and a two ton jack for a few hours we found the yard had some old bearings so I gave up trying to free the inners intact and the yard cut a few vee's in the I.D. with an air saw. With the bearing out I could see corrosion and pitting of the housings and a thick layer (≈0.5mm) of white Aluminium Oxide.

A local machine shop has offered to turn some new bearings from Vesconite, so I was thinking of a redesign adding 4 water grooves to the O.D. and I.D. and hopefully allow some of the Alu Oxide / Calicification out of the bearing face and avoid future seizing / bore closure.

My calculations for the dimensions of the new vesconite bearing is attached, I would certainly appreciate any feedback or advice from those more engineeringly inclined!

Please also find below the link for JP3 Type 1 Bearing – Notice which recommends inspecting annually, dropping the rudder every two years, and factory service every five years…?

JP3 - Notices

Will let you know how the work pans out and attach some photos's when I have some time

Cheers
John

[Ascension]

Hi Mahés

Well we’ve boxed the rudder job and launched Ascension so update as promised.

After carefully checking the CAD drawings from JP3 the inner diameter of the lower housing is 65mm not 64mm, so I have revised the calculations for the bearings, it was also necessary to change materials due to local availability so we ended up with Teflon inners machined to the following dims;

I.D.: 34.50mm
O.D.: 64.25mm
Length: 40.00mm

With some much appreciated advice from David Loughborough at JP3 USA, I made the short term fix of polishing the lower bearing housing, repairing the deep pitting with filled epoxy and then protecting the bare ally with Lanocote.

As Martin suggested I have also removed all the A/F from around the lower housings and rudder stocks and replaced with a zone of Trilux.

All is looking good so far, I will post any issues / developments here.

It might be worth noting that the top bearings are a different size so not interchangeable with the lowers.

Hope the above helps if you have a similar issue.

Cheers
John

[bob24340]

Originally Posted by Edmund

Last evening, as we entered our harbour, I suddenly needed to adjust course. I jumped to the wheel and tried to turn it for a sec before I remembered to take it out of Auto, and suddenly it felt very light. I felt there was no big power used, but the picture shows what had happened...

I'll fix it myself, the bother of trying to get it fixed under warranty ain't worth the effort. But this is obviously a week point, and the design is not good. The distance from the steering mounting plate to the carrying wooden plate is quite big (through the two white distance plates used), creating a large momentum from the force used on the steering wheel. Combine this distance with the relatively small area of wood who is to resist this momentum, it does not take much load to break it, especially when turning starboard.

Same happened to me. Stronger as the fuse of the autopilot. Poor and dangerous design for me

[Edmund]

Sad to hear you experienced the same accident. Obviously a week point, and I have tried to inform FP about it.

Just for the record: You will blow the autopilot fuse only if the AP pump is actually running, and you try hard enough against the pump. If the AP pump is NOT running, you will only work against the fixed hydraulic pressure in the system, not against the pump and its fuse. And if you are strong enough, as we both are , you can then end up breaking the mounting plate, as we both did....

[RJW]

Originally Posted by MKB53

Hi Guys

Since new I have had a lot of play in the steering. I used up all of the adjustment on the cable end (aft) which improved things but it is still not great.

The problem seems to be that the distance from the steering box to the mounting is too long for the cable outer. I am planning to move the mountings once I have worked out the geometry of it all to make sure I don'y loose any travel.

I would imagine this problem is not unique to me and was wondering what you guys may have done to fix it?

Cheers
Martin

Martin

Did you find a solution to the play? I'm trying to resolve the same issue without any luck so far. Next stop would be to call in an expert!

Thanks

Roger

[MKB53]

The short answer is "Kind of". I have posted a more recent comment somewhere.
Apologies for teh loose terminology but I don't know the correct terms for the items.

It has nothing to do with the mounting or adjustment. There was too much play between the Outer cable and the fitting at the quadrant end. The nut that holds the outer in the fitting does not take up all the play. This can't be adjusted out.

What I did was fit a collar around the end that goes into the fitting (about 9mm long) between the flange on the outer and the end fitting. This has taken that play out.

There is still some play at the wheel but this is just a function of the mechanical rod steering. Every time there is a bend in the cable the inner get a bit of room to move inside the outer and you get play. If it was dead straight in theory it would be much better.

I will see if I can put a diagram together.

[RJW]

Thanks for the information, I found your other info on the subject which is in the owners forum. I did tighten up the cable adjustment and will double check if there is still room for a collar. I will also check if there could be wear in the box behind the helm.

[Ascension]

Hi Martin, Roger,

I would certainly appreciate any photo's or info on your "steering play" fix as I'm just in the process of stripping and investigating Ascension's.

Do you happen to know the OEM of the steering components, I'm guessing its a Teleflex / SeaStar system, perhaps the HPS model?

Any info / thoughts appreciated.

Cheers
John

[1rkghost]

Last Saturday while attempting to sail in our first Regatta I lost steering immediately after crossing the start. I heard a pop and our wheel flew freely. We started the engines and dropped the sails. I then checked our auto pilot and realized it was still working so we headed back to the dock. At the dock i found that the cable pulled free from the box behind the helm. I was able to reattach it and used a slightly larger bolt but now the steering is much tighter. I disconnected the cable at the rudder to see if it would free up and it did ruling out faulty cable. I then disconnected each side of auto pilot independently and found the starboard rudder was not moving very easily. Ive read the posts in here and think i need to drop the rudder to investigate but want advice as to whether it can be done while diving. We are 180 miles from Tampa or St. Petersburg Florida and thats the closest place we can get hauled.

[captainjay]

Originally Posted by 1rkghost

Last Saturday while attempting to sail in our first Regatta I lost steering immediately after crossing the start. I heard a pop and our wheel flew freely. We started the engines and dropped the sails. I then checked our auto pilot and realized it was still working so we headed back to the dock. At the dock i found that the cable pulled free from the box behind the helm. I was able to reattach it and used a slightly larger bolt but now the steering is much tighter. I disconnected the cable at the rudder to see if it would free up and it did ruling out faulty cable. I then disconnected each side of auto pilot independently and found the starboard rudder was not moving very easily. Ive read the posts in here and think i need to drop the rudder to investigate but want advice as to whether it can be done while diving. We are 180 miles from Tampa or St. Petersburg Florida and thats the closest place we can get hauled.

Yes you can drop the ruder in the water. I have done it on a couple fp's. The rudder will be buoyant so tie a spare anchor around it to help pull it down. Remove all the steering arm and related parts from the top and pull it out. .

Jay