Mahe 36: Rudders - Steering

[Cotemar]

Jan Iversen,

Mahe’s are using the Furuno NavPilot 511 autopilot with a Hydraulic Linear Cylinder made by Lecomble & Schmitt to the steering quadrant.
Their web site is www.ls-france.com

Here are the numbers on the parts.
Cylinder REF 22010961 41RL128908
Pump REF 2201100C 41RL207608
Oil Reservoir REF 2202631C 41RL007508

This is the e-mail reply I received from Lecomble & Schmitt when I gave them my part numbers to see which system I have.

You will find in the attachment an information sheet on the linear drive
installed on your Mahe.

The P/N of the model you have is 2202631. It is not on our web site.
Your model is absolutely identical to
P/N 2201788 "LINEAR DRIVE 40 ST 16 DEBP 12 V"
but you have steel fittings instead of stainless steel fittings.
This is the only difference.
See attached PDF for details

Mark

[vayacondios]

Just went out on our first sail of the season, and the steering was very tight. Felt very hard to turn wheel. We weren't going far, so anchored up no worries, and dove underneath expecting to find growth that was interfering with rudders, there was none!
We had anti-foulded 7 months earlier, and during the wet season, the boat was in a river that was mostly fresh water, so no growth but a small amount of slime. Amazing and wonderful however, we need to figure out what the issue is with the rudders, and steering. Is there something that needs greased or some maintenance done that we are not aware of. The Mahe is 2010, been in the water just over a year.
Thanks for your advice.
Rozzie

[Laidback]

First, eliminate any problem between rudder post and wheel;
if accessible :-
Disconnect cable/s from quadrant. (Remember position of wheel and quadrant) Now try turning the wheel, if nice and loose - the problem is likely to be found with the rudder shaft Bearings. If they have a grease nipple -- pump wheel bearing grease.
If no nipples - check for corrosion.

[vayacondios]

Thanks Laidback,
We did disconnect the cables and the steering is nice and fine. Ug! We cannot find any grease nipple around the rudder shaft or bearings. Might have to get some other eyes on this for us.

[vayacondios]

Well we just spoke to the Fountaine Pajot dealer here in Australia, and was told that the bearings are fouled from sitting. The boat has been sitting in a marina that is mostly fresh water for 4 months. There is no growth on the bottom of the boat, so I find it hard to believe there is growth in the bearings, but what do I know. I think it must be a very poor design on FP that you can not prevent this. Our only solution that we know of know is to haul the boat out drop the rudders and clean the bearings out. The service professional at the broker said that he doubts the bearings are worn, just rather it's fouled.
This just burns me. A boat that is one year old having this kind of issue.
Has anyone had any experience with this, and or can offer any advise.
Thanks
Rozzie

[DtM]

Rozzie,

That sounds like a load of rubbish to me from the dealer.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by DtM

Rozzie,

That sounds like a load of rubbish to me from the dealer.

And me
No light in the rudder tube means no growth I believe

What are the bearings made from, is it possible they may have swollen slightly as some plastics are prone to do?

[Laidback]

vayacondios,
I am not familiar with your boats rudder system - I have heard about FP having problems with rudder bearings. I will search for a recent discussion on the subject -- As a multihuller myself. I wonder if you can beach yours and have a good close up of the rudders -- I remember the Whitsundays having 12 ft tides.

[vayacondios]

Further discussion with the "broker service expert", he stated later that he had only seen this problem "on occasion". Really he didn't know much. Or he knew but he didn't want to really admit that it's a design flaw. If it's not a design flaw than perhaps it's an issue with quality control issue, the casing doesn't allow for any expansion on on our particular Mahe. What really burned me was that he said he was typical to happen with boats that sit for any amount of time. That is a load of crap! Half the boats in the marina haven't moved in months or years, if that was the case, the problem would be more prevalent. In talking with some other yachties on the dock, we heard about the Nylon Bushings in an aluminium case swells theory. So when not in use, they can swell more I guess. The suggestion was to use it as along as you can and the next time you haul out ream the casing out and use the same nylon bushings, otherwise just replacing the bushings, it would happen again.
I guess Im just really disappointed that we have had to haul the boat out twice in the first 15 months. A wouldn't expect that with a new boat. I realise all boats have issues and flaws, some more than others, maybe I just need to adjust my attitude and realise that I would rather be dealing with this issue than many others (like not having a boat), and be grateful. Still looking for more feedback if there is any out there. It's not easy to steer now, which is a big bummer, and we are not due to haul out for at least 12 months. Might be able to do it by drying out, but I understand you have be chocked up quite high to allow for the rudder drop.

[Laidback]

Vaya Con Dios,

Very interesting discussion re the Lavezzi rudder bearings in CF's forums - If these are made by the same company in France - I would almost be certain that the material they are made of cannot be immersed for long without distorting, It should made no difference if the boat was stationary or cruising - they are still in the water (Aussie water may be warmer than Froggie's)

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ent-52612.html

[vayacondios]

Thanks Laidback, I had read that thread when searching on the issue before. Seems like it's the same issue that we are having.
I think this will be one of those longer term projects, we'll put up with it for a while. Get replacement bushings on order.
I am so happy to have this forum to look for things. I just dread having to email or call the broker's service person. I have to email several times to get a response, or sic hubby on him. I think men get different responses from tradesmen then women. Pity that one is.

[YourOldNemesis]

I'm not familiar with you particular boat, but are you sure you need to haul the boat to drop the rudder and replace the bearings? How high is the hull's rudder flange compared to the waterline?

[vayacondios]

Someone suggested just drying out and only having to drop the rudders down a bit to get to the lower bearings. I guess I need to get some diagrams and a real idea of what's involved. I don't even know what the bearing looks like. I thought it would be something that went around the rudder post, like slid over it so you would have to drop the rudder completely out to put a new one over but maybe not. Also another yachtie on the dock, suggested that there could be come corrosion. I'll look for a drawing of the rudder assembly in the material that came with the boat, and/or request from FP. That might give me a better idea of what is needed. Thank God for old yachties on the dock (and online) for their advise!!!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by vayacondios

we heard about the Nylon Bushings in an aluminium case swells theory. So when not in use, they can swell more I guess. (

I thought I was the only idiot to have used aluminium (anodised) tubes

I used Ralloy for the bearings so they didnt swell but did sand the inside of tube to get ralloy to bond to ally tube with epoxy

Hit a bombie and obviously cracked the epoxy allowing water to the ally which did the slow corrode causing expansion.

I had to drop the rudder out ( I had a locking thread in top of shaft so I could put a bolt in, tie a rope to it, drop rudder with rope attached and hook it with a boat hook and pull it all back aboard)
Smack the bearing out
Re-sand and re set with epoxy and try again, which worked for the next 5 years that I had the vessel

New boat has fiberglass tubes

[vayacondios]

Thanks Cat man do
So you took the rudder out while it was in the water no??? Did you put it back in? while in the water?