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Old 01-06-2016, 17:04   #16
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

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Originally Posted by jdazey View Post
Hello Helia 44,

I'll repeat something you already know; you're going to have to give some things up as you age. At some point even the Helia will be too big. So What. Do what you want within your current abilities. You'll know when the time comes to back off. So....

You've got some resources. You like the Leopard? Go charter one or go to the factory and check it out in person. That should satisfy your itch. If it fits you, you've got a winner. If not at least you've answered the question.

Your taste in boats is quite different than mine, and I have no stake in the outcome, but from my perspective, 60 is a bit young to start pulling back.


Cheers,
Love your response and it is right on....
That is definitely in the cards if I get confirmed on moving up.. Maybe not even the L-48, maybe go to the Carib or Phuket and charter the SABA 50. The engine size on the L-48 is holding me back, and I cannot even Turbo them according to Yamaha.. Volvo says the 75 hp Turbo was the original design and the D2-55's in my Helia are the same motor non-turbo... Hmmm

Taste in boats different? Maybe not, I quite like your boat.. From the Chesapeake you would have some serious miles down the Gulf Stream to the Caribbean.. I understand your boat and style. There was a Shionning 51 here, cloud raking mast, massive winches, kick up rudders,"Rosella" fast enough to be scary, but I am in the GBR Great Barrier Reef.. Here it is spoiled cruising, one day passage to islands or ports, endless Tropical Big Game fishing, fabulous beach combing, flat water for the most part, 2000 miles of islands and reef and ports. Your Cat idea is suited to your area and is made for big passages, here my Cat is a luxury waterfront apartment I move to different interesting places in 2000 miles of protected waterways and uncountable reefs and islands of North Queensland. Different boat requirements, but I do appreciate your boat style of performance that is just not required here. My use is all high quality living aboard in luxury, short one day passages...

And BTW, I am the fittest mid-60s person I know. 45 minute walk-jogs, hour walks in hilly country with my German Shepherd, 45 minute bike rides, several days a week... so my mid sixties is not a liability right now.

Love your response Brother, keep on trucking.... And BTW, the GBR is probably one of the greatest Cat cruising grounds in the World. Safe, no Pirates, hurricane dog-holes everywhere, friendly natives, and great snorkling and diving about 6 months out of the year without a worry. I mean the Med would be great for Culture, the Carib for some of the same and history, but in nature the GBR is the tops I have seen where the natives are safe and friendly everywhere...

Others reading this Thread: I am stalled out on the Leopard right now... Because of the potential for flat water no wind motoring that does not slow down my travels, I don't mind running the iron jibs.. I am concerned about the L-48 being underpowered... But maybe I have to just get the idea that if it is a longer passage in one day of 80-90 NM of no wind, it is just more diesel and a run of both engines... Hmmmm Where my Helia 44 runs at around 7 knots on one engine, maybe I can get 9-10 knots with both engines in the L-48 and just burn more diesel when I am trying to get somewhere.. hmmm that IS a thought... With wind, they would both go well here in the GBR mostly flat water... Maybe just allow for more diesel and maintenance, and be prepared to run on both engines if needed. That is bringing me around..
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Old 01-06-2016, 18:01   #17
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

G'day Hellia 44,
totally get where your coming from (even though I am a nefarious Lagoon owner ) I am wondering are we discussing a case of BBE - big boat envy which was recently discussed on a trailer sailer forum I lurk on (and where I started from) I started off on a 18 ft trailer yacht and after 20 years and 6 boats now have our very much beloved catamaran "Sunshine". While we are not considering upgrading at the moment I am constantly looking at the latest models and all the gizmos that go with it.
One thing I take great comfort in regarding "Sunshine" is that I know this boat back to front. I know its limitations but I also know her strengths. We have the boat to the way we want it and while we could always add extras it would be for no great benefit to me or the boat.
You dont say if you are considering new, but I suspect you are. If this is the case then you need to consider build time. The time frame to set up the boat to your specification etc. When new boat arrives it will have teething problems, every boat does regardless of built be they little one or big ones and onece again these take time to become known and to rectify.
Sounds to me you already have your perfect boat. Just my two cents worth . Good luck in your deliberations.



Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
Lagoon 410S2
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Old 01-06-2016, 19:17   #18
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

You could very well be right... And thank you for your input...
But sometimes you do things as I have said: "Just because you can"..

What is staring me in the face is that this would be the last big change, the limit due to time and health.. If I load it up new, it will come pretty much equipped with what I need, the rest is cake and fun to install. However: What I do now, sticks. I don't mind the nine month wait for new, and would certainly go see any for sale. At this point we would sell the Helia, and go without for 10 months. Maybe a month seeing everything for sale that was remotely possible, then probably order new. IF I do it now, it is likely the last. If I get too old to run it single handed, I will hire a Delivery Skipper for any long hauls I might want to do. With friends and family, short hops will be fine. If get too old to handle the main, a furling main boom can be done, even with reefing points.

I may very well keep the Helia, like 60/40 in favor now. It has no short comings other than my tastes in spares and such want to overload it. I am at the performance limit, waterline limit, in fact going back down. My Bluewater experience before would like to carry 100 M of main rode chain, plus 30 M of secondary hurricane hook. I am in the process of reducing that to 60 M, and a secondary just smaller amount of chain and hook.. I am now thinking unless I do my annual big trek, I keep one diesel tank empty, and only 1/4-1/2 full water as I have a 240 volt water maker... About all I give up is that cool ventilation and extra cockpit in the front, and the dream concept of having a longer range center console hard bottom inflatable.. I can live without them... What does it mean? Maybe more generator runs in hot weather for air conditioning, and less range on my existing hard bottom inflatable not as comfortable.

Thank you again for your input, I am giving it this whole month for in depth analysis, because the end of next month is a new L-48 (already sold but) in the Sydney International Boat Show.... Hmmmm, interested, I go to sit on it twice a day every day... Stick with the Helia and I won't bother.

Again, I am Blessed to have the Helia 44, strong performer under sail and motors, and the most livable for it's size I have ever seen.. The L-48 would just be a last adventure "Because I can"... And still not sure I will. Thinking but right now about 55/45 % against.. I am a little closer resolving that if I really want or need to make the big miles in flat calm weather, I just run BOTH engines on the L-48, or relax and start a few hours earlier before dawn to make the next long haul island run... Hmmmm

Thank you for helping me come to terms with all of this.. My ramble helps to analyze it... It is a HUGE decision for us.... Yacht AVALON
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:14   #19
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

I am also looking at something of similar size. Have you considered the Balance 526?
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Old 02-06-2016, 16:42   #20
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

He did make it clear he was only considering a production boat from a proven designer and builder.

Balance 526 would be only for those with a tolerance for high risk.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:22   #21
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
He did make it clear he was only considering a production boat from a proven designer and builder.

Balance 526 would be only for those with a tolerance for high risk.
Yes well we all have to start somewhere. I would usually say it's only money, but that doesn't quite fit here.... Adding another cat brand to the list really doesn't help either I'm guessing.. Sorry
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Old 05-06-2016, 22:14   #22
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

Staying on the Helia 44 AVALON for the weekend.... I have come to a conclusion:

This is a GREAT boat.... I think I will stop right here. A Man has to know, when the little kid inside of us is the motivator...

The Helia 44 is near perfect, and this one is LOADED... I will continue to modify and customize it a little, but to go any larger for just cruising the GBR and East Coast of Australia, to go any larger is ludicrous... Really... I mean Tony Longhurst the Race Driver that owns Boatworks built about a 2 Million $ Cat.. I told him: "Tony, I can cruise with you, I will be going on a full set of sails and just have a motor on the off side running where you can't see it".... To which he replied: "Yea, but how much fuel do you carry?" To which I replied: "Oh, 940 litres if I am seriously travelling"... He looked stunned, then threw his hands up in the air and said: "You can cruise the WORLD with that!!" Heh he...

As it is, I am on the big side, two 44' hulls joined by a massive house bridge, deck, but really I have great visibility all the way through from the back cockpit and massive visibility from the helm... I think I will just count my blessings and stay on board the Helia 44... Any larger, and in high winds and cross currents in tricky harbours is going to be a bit stressful.

I have raced this Helia 44, and pushed her to 12 knots to windward in 20-25 apparent, I don't need to do better than that. Motoring she does really well, handles good, great visibility, and can go into a 45' cat slip. I think I will count my Blessings and stop right here...

Avalon is a dream come true, no need to get greedy and maybe do the wrong thing.

Kind regards...
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:02   #23
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdazey View Post
Hello Helia 44,

I'll repeat something you already know; you're going to have to give some things up as you age. At some point even the Helia will be too big. So What. Do what you want within your current abilities. You'll know when the time comes to back off. So....

You've got some resources. You like the Leopard? Go charter one or go to the factory and check it out in person. That should satisfy your itch. If it fits you, you've got a winner. If not at least you've answered the question.

Your taste in boats is quite different than mine, and I have no stake in the outcome, but from my perspective, 60 is a bit young to start pulling back.

Cheers,
Well, thank goodness someone has commented on your age, jdazey has hit the jackpot, you are but a youngster, I am 75 fit as a fiddle, think like a 18 year old love sailing my Lagoon 400 with my gorgeous lady. Now to the subject. I know the Helia 44 very well the Evolution is a nice upgrade, if you are like me and prefer to do things without help any thing much bigger is going to be a problem on your own imho when things go wrong. I looked long and hard at the Leopard 48 however after getting over the first flush of excitement I stood on the roof and I found it difficult to get my arms around the sailbag (I am 6ft) huge potential problem with a big heavy sail trying to stow the main when turning into wind on a rough day, (one does not want to break bones when getting older the body stoped making bone a long time ago) when admiring the benefit of sun protection from that massive roof it occurred to me that someone has to wash it, that same roof that covers the front outside lounge area also blocks the view to the port when mooring, not desirable, like you I liked the electrical set up, much better than the French I agree, I particularly liked the position of the batteries probably the best I have seen from a servicing or replacement point of view so easy. On the same subject the Helia 44 has it's batteries in the most difficult spot I could imagine, I would be most interested to know if you have ever had to change them and how you managed to remove them, let alone replace them, as for that bimini top, the way the roof slopes the wrong way is very unstylish, also when one stands up the bimini top blocks ones view, that's what I found anyway, now don't get me wrong every craft has it's plusses and minuses, as I said the Hellia is a great craft I'm being a bit picky. So back to question,
my thoughts are sell the Helia and buy the Helia Evolution, plenty big enough and a substantial improvement over the old one which will give you a new lease on your sailing life, a safe move foreward given your experience with your current Helia. You may be interested to know that I am considering upgrading, I am fairly keen on the Lagoon 42S, not much bigger than my current Lagoon 400, but has some new design features that may help when I get in to my old age such as a self tacking jib, a mast set back that allows a much shorter boom, (easier to pack main away on a rough day) a built in stairway to access the roof next to the steering station (yes Lagoon just caught up to the Helia 44 in this regard) I just wish they had that great steering station seat that the Helia has. I will be a Sydney also to check out the latest offerings, and a test sail of the Lagoon 42S, and say G'day to my friends at the FP stand. So there you are, give Mark a call in the morning and do the deal, upgrade to the Helia Evolution. Regards Peter
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Old 06-06-2016, 18:08   #24
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

Hello Peter,

First of all, I do not have any of the problems you mentioned discovering on the Helia. But mine has been customized a bit... Now for your kind comments, and other Helia Owners benefits, particularly future Helia 44 Owners, here is some help:

On the Leopard, I would cover some of that area with solar panels, and not worry too much about keeping it bristol clean. On your comments on the main, very valid, and a non-square topped main will fall into the sail bag quite nicely with the Lazy Jacks, I have verified this with a Leopard Owner.. But further, I was thinking of battened furling main, power furling maybe, into a custom main boom... Yes, $30-$40,000 but can be done. Sail shape would be good as it would track on the mast... But anyway, at least for now I have decided the Helia 44 is quite luxurious and adequate and larger is just a bit silly..

To answer your comments on batteries and location: When my batteries go, I am putting in (2) 300 AH Lithiums in a dead spot on the cockpit floor just aft of the galley in the cockpit. I have put in an inspection hole and it is perfect, the 300 Lithiums will go in end to end. Over head is huge, a big dead area, so BMS and controls and LVD and relay driver, and EPro monitor can go in above them. I just have to design a custom hatch for the area where I only have a six inch inspection hatch now. This will increase my solar efficiency by about 30%, charging speed by about 30%, and usable battery capacity for draw down by about 30% well inside safety guidelines...

Those battery guidelines are very conservative estimates as well as a about a 200 kg savings out on the starboard stern. It will negate more than half the load of the extra 470 litre fuel tank that was cast into the hull that I have completed and commissioned, as the fuel tank is actually forward of the current battery location. Moving them to the discovered dead space aft of the galley, is also more mid-ships...

To comment on the Helia Evolution: Sorry, that in no way goes with my Lifestyle... A lot of veteran Cruisers, especially on Cats, take up trolling lures for moments of extreme PANIC and excitement... I mean the Helia is not just for week vacations with spritzy drinks in hand loaded with Tourists on those back lounge cushion of the Evolution. To me it is TOTALLY impractical and in the way... Heh he.. I run four fishing poles in holders across the back, and a good sized fish cleaning board that raises up and down, and sometimes carry a 100 litre 5" wall portable freezer lashed tight on a mat on the back... Having caught about 50 fish last year in the 3 foot and larger sizes, up to a 50-60 lb Giant Trevally, 6 foot Black Marlin, 8'8 1/2" Sailfish, all those cute cushions on the back would be in the way totally and wrecked in short order...

There are some king sized fish pictures in my Topic "Improvements to the Helia 44"
Here you can see half of the back "working deck" area of my Helia 44 in action, four pole holders for trolling, crank up meat hook, BBQ, fish cleaning tackle board in upright position, and fish freezer: To me the new Evolution would be a huge step down except for drink in hand Charter fleet harbour cruises.. heh he.. And that is my advice for anyone considering it....
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:47   #25
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New Fountaine Pajot 47

Helia 44,

Why not upgrade to the New FP 47

The New FP 47 fills the gap between the very successful Helia 44 Evolution and Saba 50. With all the concepts and design of the whole sail range with masses of space, light and performance, the New FP 47 could be called the mini Saba 50.

The first few hulls of the New FP 47 is available for order now at a preferential rate.

Sailing catamaran - New 47 - Fountaine Pajot
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:47   #26
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Re: New Fountaine Pajot 47

looks good, any idea on base price?
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Old 07-06-2016, 17:16   #27
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Re: New Fountaine Pajot 47

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Helia 44,

Why not upgrade to the New FP 47

The New FP 47 fills the gap between the very successful Helia 44 Evolution and Saba 50. With all the concepts and design of the whole sail range with masses of space, light and performance, the New FP 47 could be called the mini Saba 50.
Thank you Cotemar,
But in truth my Helia 44 is so great, and performs so well, I am hesitant to make a minor upgrade to the 47. It does not mean I will not be won over at a Boat Show at some point in the future, but if I am going up it would likely be all the way to the SABA 50.

I mean I have never even seen the Maestro version of the SABA 50 yet. The nearest one is in Phuket. Any way, this is really not about the size issue, as for all practical purposes the Helia 44 is near perfect. For me it is about a Lifestyle issue, more partial living aboard again, and more extended cruising, with more storage capability. I am not quite there yet, but I have decided this much: If I do bridge the gap and decide to make this my focal point for the rest of my fit life, I have decided I will sell the Helia 44 first, then fly all over the globe and consider the options that are practical, and then be prepared to wait 9 months and just Charter until it is ready. I could also stumble on one second hand..

However, right now I am quite satisfied with the Helia 44 and may just stop right here. I was being a little like an impulsive kid, sitting in the Leopard 48. Now a more mature attitude has taken over and I am realizing that the effort does not make sense, when the Helia 44 is so good. If I am motivated to take the plunge, in process we will possibly see a 47, but more likely aim for the L-48 or the SABA 50 and make the effort pay off BIG... heh he...

Shelving it all for now... Happy and confident with AVALON..
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Old 07-06-2016, 17:20   #28
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Re: Is an upgrade to my Helia 44 even practical?? Parameters for myself here for comm

Helia 44,

I agree. The Helia 44 Evo fits our needs also. May have to follow your lead and add that extra fuel tank.
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Old 25-07-2016, 07:10   #29
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Re: New Fountaine Pajot 47

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looks good, any idea on base price?
$500253.00. Base price then with upgrades & commissioning, I'd be guessing you would end up around $750000.00 USD that is
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