Sold my company - want to sail - but can I?

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Buy a boat in Europe (they're cheaper here), sail into the Med., forget about a land-based life and don't look back. Can be done easily on much less than your budget $2000-$3000 per month is enough. During our months at anchor, my budget comes in at less than $1500 per month. Much more to see over here, better food, nice people etc. (see Mallorca meetup thread)

Also, don't hesitate to look at powercats or trawlers, they would be ideal for your plans.

This sounds wonderful, BUT I have children here (one just married and another in college). We're a very close knit family and who knows when grandchildren will be added. We want to be able to sail for a few weeks (maybe up to 2 months) and then return, thus the land home. We could buy a less expensive land home, but I think we would have a hard time adjusting. I hate to admit it, but we live in almost 8K Sq Ft now. It overlooks the lake with a huge view. I'm trying to minimize the shock to our system. We will be taking the equity from this home and purchasing the new home and boat (should be able to add to savings to from the net). We may have to ease into things. I'm sure we'll adjust. Before you think we're too high fluting, we also have lived in less than 800 sg ft with two children when we first started out, so we can make the change. I'm just trying to develop a transition plan that will be 1) doable from a financial perspective 2) not a shock to the system 3) still a lot of fun and adventure to make the change worth doing. It's our dream to do this. We can get really conservative, but like everyone else, we enjoy nice things if we can afford them.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by LivingWhale

Great points. So, if it costs you $200 a month, then would i be right in assuming that for 2 people it would double? I like the idea of eating the fish I catch, but I figured I shouldn't count on it. Also, to clarify, we plan to spend half the time in each location. That will definitely factor in and gives me more food for thought (pun intended). Thank you!

It does cost more for two folks to eat than one, but not quite double. Unless two different menus are being used, like one eats beef and the other pork. Realistically catching fish should not be relied on, rather something to supplement your diet. Some folks do things like make fish jerky and can veggies when in season to save money; problem is all this takes time. If you think this is fun well and good, but if you would rather be sailing, or diving, or fishing, or snoozing in a hammock you may be better off buying food.

The way you split your time may not be as important as where you split it. If you get a condo on Miami Beach close to the beautiful people it will be more expensive than one in a lower cost area like Green Cove. Same goes for where you cruise. There was a recent thread about how it cost less to cruise in the Med than the Bahamas; and there was no real agreement. Even in the Bahamas (or the Med) it will cost more to cruise your boat in some areas (like New Providence) than others (like the Berrys).

One of the biggest factors in how much one spends is what I will call the time and money ratio. Do you have more time than money, if so you will spend less; but if you have more money than time you will spend more.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by LivingWhale

I hate to admit it, but we live in almost 8K Sq Ft now.

Ah, that does change perspective a bit. I'm thinking even a 60 foot cat will seem tiny in comparison. With only limited/part time cruising being your objective, I might recommend getting a power cat or a fair size trawler and forgo mucking about with sails bits.

A power cat or trawler will be easier all around to operate, Less fussing with the running rigging, hoisting and trimming sails. It's a bit of work sailing.

Some of the newer trawlers have very nice interiors and tons of space, at least when compared to a sailboat of similar size. Very small learning curve compared to sailing. Your going to want your creature comforts, so A/C, water maker, Sat TV, hot water, etc will mean a generator running a fair bit of the time.

Yes power boats use more fuel, Lots more. But if your only cruising weeks or a month at a time, it's not a huge cost comparatively. I know one gentleman who docks his 55' power boat single handed. He uses a joystick control on the aft deck to maneuver and dock his boat. He's got all the bells and whistles too. I think its a huge boat, but your going to need something in the 60+ foot range with 4/5 cabins with kids/ grandkids and maybe a crew.

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah, that does change perspective a bit. I'm thinking even a 60 foot cat will seem tiny in comparison. With only limited/part time cruising being your objective, I might recommend getting a power cat or a fair size trawler and forgo mucking about with sails bits.

A power cat or trawler will be easier all around to operate, Less fussing with the running rigging, hoisting and trimming sails. It's a bit of work sailing.

Some of the newer trawlers have very nice interiors and tons of space, at least when compared to a sailboat of similar size. Very small learning curve compared to sailing. Your going to want your creature comforts, so A/C, water maker, Sat TV, hot water, etc will mean a generator running a fair bit of the time.

Yes power boats use more fuel, Lots more. But if your only cruising weeks or a month at a time, it's not a huge cost comparatively. I know one gentleman who docks his 55' power boat single handed. He uses a joystick control on the aft deck to maneuver and dock his boat. He's got all the bells and whistles too. I think its a huge boat, but your going to need something in the 60+ foot range with 4/5 cabins with kids/ grandkids and maybe a crew.

If money weren't an object, I would agree. But sadly I don't have enough to do this. Also, as I understand it, a sailing cat is much less expensive than a motor cat. I also thought the gas cost would be MUCH greater...I need to check on that. I think we'll have to get a smaller cat, but that can sleep 8+. We adapt pretty well and have often slept 6 in a hotel room meant for 4. I know it's not the same, but we do get along and if you do have a disagreement, you better work it out quick because you certainly can't storm off . Several folks have mentioned that my question is a financial planning question and and not a CF question. That's partly true. However, my financial situation is not highly adjustable (unless I go back to work - I have no desire to do this, though I have traded stocks and with a good internet connection could probably add to my earnings that way - and yes, I know what I'm doing there, so the risk is limited). I'm attempting a reality check. Can we do it? Are others doing this? If you are doing this, what are your concerns about the future with inflation, aging, etc.? I also understand this is not a small undertaking. Many of you have many years experience and knowledge that I don't have. Well, everyone has a starting point and mine happens to be here. I'm sure the first year will bring much learning and with that learning a bit of tuition. Bottom line is that we've sold our company, had children early in life, so we can now enjoy our time. Sitting on land and watching sports everyday or even become an avid golfer isn't all that appealing (though it beats a job). We want an adventure! BUT we don't want to break the bank in doing so. I don't mean to ramble, but hopefully this will shed a little more light on things. We can comfortably spend about $5000 a month for the boat and land home (both paid for and just the upkeep, insurance, etc.) and should have inflation protection going forward. In 20 years that number will shrink by about $2K per month, but who knows what we'll be doing in 20 years or if we would even be able to sail. I appreciate all the input. Your views have already been extremely helpful. Please do share more!

[monte]

My advice is to spend around 200k on a decent lagoon 380/400/410 and try it out. So long as you buy sensibly, worst case scenario you lose 10% over a year or so and have a taste for the lifestyle. After a year or so you will probably either:
A/ realize boats are just an expensive hole in the water and sell it and return home/buy a motorhome
B/ be totally satisfied with your new lifestyle and make it work for you with your current boat
C/ be totally addicted to the boating side, rent out the house, and sail off into the sunset.
Only doing it will you find out which option you will be choosing in a year or two's time.
I agree with keeping the nestegg and having regular income, so I would make sure whatever you decide that you keep hold of a property that will increase with inflation (ideally a house) make sure that the current rental return is enough for you to live on comfortably and maintain a boat, including depreciation on the boat.
Start a speadsheet and start filling in your living costs, expected costs and maintain it to keep track of your estimates.
So if you have, lets say a $300,000 property that returns around $20,000 rental income after expenses, and you can live off $15,000/year + $5000 for depreciation and you can buy a boat outright for around $200,000 with no additional work/expenses required, you are good to go. Any more is a bonus. Personally Id be more comfortable with a higher value property to offset the boat, but that's your call. Just remember, boats are expensive, things go wrong, if you have the $$ to pay for them its not a problem, if you don't it can wreck your day..

[ArtM]

I think I'm getting a clearer picture now.

I think you're more of a recreational cruiser than a full time cruiser.

You could purchase a small sailboat for recreational use if you wish - I mean quite small - under $50,000 for certain. Then, once a year, you can invite the entire family on a luxury cruise of your choice - power cat, sailing cat, cruise ship, river barge, it can be different every time.


You should be looking into the Moorings "ownership" program. You buy a catamaran, and they operate it for you. You pay nothing for 5 years, and in exchange you get to sail it, or another one like it anywhere they operate in the world for 6-8 weeks a year (or maybe it is up to 12 weeks? Check the particulars)

At the end of 4-5 years, you take back the cat and either sell it or keep it.

If structure correctly, it is possible that you can get a huge tax benefit from the purchase.

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by monte

My advice is to spend around 200k on a decent lagoon 380/400/410 and try it out. So long as you buy sensibly, worst case scenario you lose 10% over a year or so and have a taste for the lifestyle. After a year or so you will probably either:
A/ realize boats are just an expensive hole in the water and sell it and return home/buy a motorhome
B/ be totally satisfied with your new lifestyle and make it work for you with your current boat
C/ be totally addicted to the boating side, rent out the house, and sail off into the sunset.
Only doing it will you find out which option you will be choosing in a year or two's time.
I agree with keeping the nestegg and having regular income, so I would make sure whatever you decide that you keep hold of a property that will increase with inflation (ideally a house) make sure that the current rental return is enough for you to live on comfortably and maintain a boat, including depreciation on the boat.
Start a speadsheet and start filling in your living costs, expected costs and maintain it to keep track of your estimates.
So if you have, lets say a $300,000 property that returns around $20,000 rental income after expenses, and you can live off $15,000/year + $5000 for depreciation and you can buy a boat outright for around $200,000 with no additional work/expenses required, you are good to go. Any more is a bonus. Personally Id be more comfortable with a higher value property to offset the boat, but that's your call. Just remember, boats are expensive, things go wrong, if you have the $$ to pay for them its not a problem, if you don't it can wreck your day..

Agree on your points. Clarification: We will not rent the house, but I do have income from investments and payout for 20 years from the sale of the company. All of that's factored in.

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I think I'm getting a clearer picture now.

I think you're more of a recreational cruiser than a full time cruiser.

You could purchase a small sailboat for recreational use if you wish - I mean quite small - under $50,000 for certain. Then, once a year, you can invite the entire family on a luxury cruise of your choice - power cat, sailing cat, cruise ship, river barge, it can be different every time.


You should be looking into the Moorings "ownership" program. You buy a catamaran, and they operate it for you. You pay nothing for 5 years, and in exchange you get to sail it, or another one like it anywhere they operate in the world for 6-8 weeks a year (or maybe it is up to 12 weeks? Check the particulars)

At the end of 4-5 years, you take back the cat and either sell it or keep it.

If structure correctly, it is possible that you can get a huge tax benefit from the purchase.

Good thoughts - I considered this, but we want to sail 26 weeks or about half the year. Could be less and could be more. The idea of getting something larger for when family visits is a good one and I'll definitely consider that. You pay for convenience and it would be convenient to sail our own boat all the time; when and where we wanted. Of course we could try that and then make a change if it's not working. Lots of options. That's what makes this forum great! You guys are really helping!

[sailorchic34]

Well I do understand about that work thingy. Money is nice, but an adventure is better. I live life on less then $500/month. I did not have a lot O planning as I was let go during the great recession after 32 years in engineering. While I should have had money, lets just say I suffered a few unfortunate events. No biggy really. I need very little to get by on.

Luckily, I already owned and lived full time on my very modest 34' sailboat with very simple systems. I do have solar and an internet mifi hot spot. Currently anchored out in the boonies. I do various things to keep me floating above water, as it were. None of them involve working for someone else. A bit of HTML coding, and a bit of handygirl work here and there. Currently I'm suffering in sunshine in the warm California Delta. Hot but low humidity and not crowded either.

My 34' sailboat has 150 SF of interior space, including storage. Of course there is more space outside and I have million dollar views you just can't get living on land. I've been living full time on boats for about 10 years now.

OK I understand where your at, sort of, in my dreams. First thing, just because a boat ad says sleeps 6 or 8 does not make it so. Yes it can sleep 6 or 8, but not with luggage, food, towels, fishing gear and other stuff that takes up the limited space on a boat. A double berth means two can sleep there if they lay on top of each other.

Tankage is rather important. You'll want at least 10 gallons of holding capacity (toilet/head) per person, per week. That's a biggy if you want to anchor a lot. Stay in marina's and its less important.

Water, more is better, though you'll have a water maker, I'm thinking.

Avoid looking at the glossy photo's of the big boats in sailing magazines. Photo's with flower arrangements, knickknacks and glasswear settings about a table, only exists in glossy magazines. Reality is leaky hatches, broken bits and stuff everywhere. Look for the hand holds in the glossy photo's. No I can't find them either. Sort of important. Even a cat will rock up and down in a sea way.

Never pay full price for a boat. Never trust a broker, He's working for the owner. There are some good brokers out there, but some really bad ones too. There is no relationship between cost of the boat and condition of the boat, non, zip, nada. Most boats are detailed before they go on sale. Lipstick on a pig in some cases. Most boats spend most of there life sitting. Sea trials are where the seller is hoping everything keeps working till its back at the dock.

Biggy's, if the engine space/bilge looks like you can eat off it, that's a possible keeper. On a used boat, look for rust on the hose clamps and painted engine hoses. That last part is tricky as many engine manufacturers paint the entire engine when new. BUT if the hoses are solid new looking paint and not speckeled with age, and I'm talking an older boat, not new, then more then likely its a rattle can tune up. Sprayed painted to look newer/better then it is.

Avoid boats with rats nest of wires. Avoid teak decks! Yes they look nice but they can be a maintenance nightmare. Avoid boats with tons of exterior varnish. Again looks great, but it takes recoating twice and sometimes three times a year to keep it looking good. Sometimes only once a year for some non-varnish coatings. Its a lot of work and money

Factor in 20% of the cost of the boats price for initial repairs and upgrades. That's for a boat in good condition. There are no "ready to cruise" boats out there. If nothing else the raw water impeller needs to be changed. Factor 10 percent of the cost of the boat for yearly maintenance/upkeep, less if you do it yourself or have a really old fiberglass boat with very simple systems.

Take a week or two crewed cruise somewhere to get an idea of what living on a boat is like. Not everyone likes it.

Good luck following your dreams.

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Well I do understand about that work thingy. Money is nice, but an adventure is better. I live life on less then $500/month. I did not have a lot O planning as I was let go during the great recession after 32 years in engineering. While I should have had money, lets just say I suffered a few unfortunate events. No biggy really. I need very little to get by on.

Luckily, I already owned and lived full time on my very modest 34' sailboat with very simple systems. I do have solar and an internet mifi hot spot. Currently anchored out in the boonies. I do various things to keep me floating above water, as it were. None of them involve working for someone else. A bit of HTML coding, and a bit of handygirl work here and there. Currently I'm suffering in sunshine in the warm California Delta. Hot but low humidity and not crowded either.

My 34' sailboat has 150 SF of interior space, including storage. Of course there is more space outside and I have million dollar views you just can't get living on land. I've been living full time on boats for about 10 years now.

OK I understand where your at, sort of, in my dreams. First thing, just because a boat ad says sleeps 6 or 8 does not make it so. Yes it can sleep 6 or 8, but not with luggage, food, towels, fishing gear and other stuff that takes up the limited space on a boat. A double berth means two can sleep there if they lay on top of each other.

Tankage is rather important. You'll want at least 10 gallons of holding capacity (toilet/head) per person, per week. That's a biggy if you want to anchor a lot. Stay in marina's and its less important.

Water, more is better, though you'll have a water maker, I'm thinking.

Avoid looking at the glossy photo's of the big boats in sailing magazines. Photo's with flower arrangements, knickknacks and glasswear settings about a table, only exists in glossy magazines. Reality is leaky hatches, broken bits and stuff everywhere. Look for the hand holds in the glossy photo's. No I can't find them either. Sort of important. Even a cat will rock up and down in a sea way.

Never pay full price for a boat. Never trust a broker, He's working for the owner. There are some good brokers out there, but some really bad ones too. There is no relationship between cost of the boat and condition of the boat, non, zip, nada. Most boats are detailed before they go on sale. Lipstick on a pig in some cases. Most boats spend most of there life sitting. Sea trials are where the seller is hoping everything keeps working till its back at the dock.

Biggy's, if the engine space/bilge looks like you can eat off it, that's a possible keeper. On a used boat, look for rust on the hose clamps and painted engine hoses. That last part is tricky as many engine manufacturers paint the entire engine when new. BUT if the hoses are solid new looking paint and not speckeled with age, and I'm talking an older boat, not new, then more then likely its a rattle can tune up. Sprayed painted to look newer/better then it is.

Avoid boats with rats nest of wires. Avoid teak decks! Yes they look nice but they can be a maintenance nightmare. Avoid boats with tons of exterior varnish. Again looks great, but it takes recoating twice and sometimes three times a year to keep it looking good. Sometimes only once a year for some non-varnish coatings. Its a lot of work and money

Factor in 20% of the cost of the boats price for initial repairs and upgrades. That's for a boat in good condition. There are no "ready to cruise" boats out there. If nothing else the raw water impeller needs to be changed. Factor 10 percent of the cost of the boat for yearly maintenance/upkeep, less if you do it yourself or have a really old fiberglass boat with very simple systems.

Take a week or two crewed cruise somewhere to get an idea of what living on a boat is like. Not everyone likes it.

Good luck following your dreams.

Thanks! Great advice and I will take it to heart. We have cruised before and did enjoy it. Lots to learn, but I'm closer today than I was yesterday . Just put our current (large) home on the market today. May take some time to sell or it may go quickly - who knows. Excited, nervous, fearful and a bit restless. I don't mind change and change is good, but the doing of it is another matter.

[nimblemotors]

If you've got investments with an income stream, and will own a $300k house and have another $200k available for a boat, congratulations, Suzie Orman would be proud, you have nothing to worry about financially.

A boat is a big expense, the bigger they are, the bigger the expense. There is a lot to learn to keepi them working, a checkbook doesn't help much in far away places. What kind of 'adventure' are you looking for? Chartering a boat might make more sense than buying one.
For $200k, you can do a lot of chartering, go all over the world without crossing oceans to get there.

[LivingWhale]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

If you've got investments with an income stream, and will own a $300k house and have another $200k available for a boat, congratulations, Suzie Orman would be proud, you have nothing to worry about financially.

A boat is a big expense, the bigger they are, the bigger the expense. There is a lot to learn to keepi them working, a checkbook doesn't help much in far away places. What kind of 'adventure' are you looking for? Chartering a boat might make more sense than buying one.
For $200k, you can do a lot of chartering, go all over the world without crossing oceans to get there.

Thanks We've considered chartering, but the convenience of having your own boat can't be beat. Plus chartering 26 weeks a year would run through cash at a good clip. And we want the potential for doing this years and years to come. So, it's an investment too. Good thoughts and I'm not ruling anything out just yet.

[zboss]

"Catamaran is a must" and "600 a month" are like Matter and antimatter .... They destroy each other in a loud bang.

Continuing with the charter thing... You could BUY a charter cat and then use it only a certain amount in the year. You could get away with putting very little investment out, charter it out for 5 years while your nest egg grows, enjoying it for weeks at a time in very exotic places. When the five months are up, assume the mortgage.


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[brantleychuck]

Here is how I am planning on stretching the budget. Bought a mobile home in fort myers beach Florida. My 36 IF sloop is now docked in my back yard. Google earth Emily lane. Fort myers beach to check out the layout. Paid 165k a year ago. Rented it on a monthly basis last dec-jan-February . That easily covered the taxes, utilities, internet etc. plan is to rent house during high season which coincides with best cruising time of year. Come back to house and kick back in the ac during hot summer months. Property management handles all details. Boat is right at back doorstep for maintenance and no moorage fees. For us , this is a ideal situation and will make our budget go much further.


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[salticrak]

Bloody hell mate,you have the money,you keep referring to it.Are you just getting off on telling us how good you have it with yer houses/investments and all?
There are no guarantees in this life,you seem to want that. Buy a bloody 45 ft cat go sailing,put you crap in storage.
But for the love of all things holy just do something and then come and tell us all about it.
You do realize 99% of us on here would love to have your so called ''challenges''
end of rant.