Save the Planet!

[Pelagic]

Rich…don’t we try and manage growth stocks on a regular basis and as many have said, if we don’t nature and pandemics usually do it for us with tremendous untold suffering?

In my premise, I am assuming that the multinational chosen dictators are good fair people, who have resolved to bring mankind out of this dilemma while Saving the Planet.

Ok, I respect that you don’t think this is necessary, but don’t assume anyone considering this option is a bad person.

I haven’t done the math but I believe that our children will become the new gold standard and the reciprocal number that Hypeer suggests will be much less than 1 child per couple until we get back to 4 billion

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Rich…don’t we try and manage growth stocks on a regular basis and as many have said, if we don’t nature and pandemics usually do it for us with tremendous untold suffering?

In my premise, I am assuming that the multinational chosen dictators are good fair people, who have resolved to bring mankind out of this dilemma while Saving the Planet.

Ok, I respect that you don’t think this is necessary, but don’t assume anyone considering this option is a bad person.

I haven’t done the math but I believe that our children will become the new gold standard and the reciprocal number that Hypeer suggests will be much less than 1 child per couple until we get back to 4 billion

Why 4 billon , I beleive the planet will stabilise around 11 billion , I can't see that being a problem in itself. I mean unless we reduce the wests population drastically , were going to continue to rape the planet anyway. It's the developed world that's primarily the problem. Not the billions living in mud huts so to speak.

Oh I get it , we the developed world want all the poor people to die so we can hold on to our commodities and wealth and continue to rape the planet. Oh ok I see the solution

Sure why not nuke Africa. Cheaper and faster solves pirate problem as well

Hitler was right so, it's just he didn't have minuteman.

Dave

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

don’t assume anyone considering this option is a bad person.

Oh absolutely not, I don't think this is a bad thing to talk about at all. A gazillion posts back, someone said that there was no value to this type of thread, but I totally disagree. If we don't talk about these things how do we learn and exchange ideas? We don't. I would rather BS here with fellow cruisers/boaters that at least have a common/shared interet than with "strangers". So eventhough it's considered "TABO" these days to ever have a conversation with someone where they don't agree, I enjoy it and try to do it respectfully at the end of the day knowing that I'm just a self confessed Cruising Bozo.

You should really read this article:
History News Network | The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics
About Eugenics/population control and where it leads us...the world has already been there...done that.

So I'm not saying we shouldn't talk abou this....we should because dangerous things like this (in my opinion) need the light of day shined on them or the next thing we know we are sterlizing the undesirables, because we HAVE before!

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by hpeer

....So, right now we are growing at 80 million per year. We need to decrease at about 300 million per year. If we stop ALL births we would decrease at 56 million per year. We still need to find some way to rid ourselves of an additional 250 million-ish per year.

So even stopping births won't do the trick. Well it would eventually, but not in the stated 25 year time frame.

Obviously very round numbers. Doing it more carefully would totally creep me out.

BTW.... Are there ANY ladies in this morbid thread!

Wow Hypeer that is depressing.

But the good news for Rich is that Space Exploration and Colonization is back on the table…

I will now quietly sail into the sunset without having procreated …in the knowledge that I at least tried. (ie...to save the planet on this thread.) (I only practice procreation using blanks

Here's to all those Octomoms out there !

[boatman61]

Looks like Obama's setting the ball rolling..


Thanks to the NDAA and EO 13603, there are now distinct ways to conduct mass roundups of citizens and place them in detention camps.

Use of the Children As Bait to Lure In the Parents
Use of the Hessians to Mass Arrest Americans...

If the occupation forces desire to bring people to detention camps, the promise of food could lure many in a designed third wave of roundups. Artificial food shortages would certainly be enacted by cutting off the flow of food to supermarkets. It would take less than a week to get millions of Americans to report to detention camps to get food.

This unconstitutional EO is particularly disturbing in that it clearly states that the government has control over anything that is “capable of being ingested by either human beings or animals…” If you thought that you and Fido were going to get through coming food crisis by consuming dog food, think again.

How will farmers maintain the nation’s food supply when all fertilizer, their farm equipment and all of their vehicles are under the control of this sociopathic President?

[SV THIRD DAY]

A Scary side to be on?


"The United States Supreme Court endorsed aspects of eugenics. In its infamous 1927 decision, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind…. Three generations of imbeciles are enough." This decision opened the floodgates for thousands to be coercively sterilized or otherwise persecuted as subhuman. Years later, the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials quoted Holmes's words in their own defense."

[Mike OReilly]

You guys kill me (and judging from some of your answers, some of you actually might ). You keep turning to the population problem, and refuse to look in the mirror. Population is not our problem. Over consumption of resources is. Unless you're seriously planning major military actions, biocide, or natural disasters, you and I have zero direct control over the global population problems. What we do have control over is our over use of resources, and more importantly, our abuse of power that supports our luxurious lifestyles.

It's easy to point over there and say, 'if only they could stop breeding, we'd all be fine.' This is laughable. The single best way to control population is to get people out of poverty, and educate them (particularly women). If we stopped sucking all the energy and wealth out of the planet, and shared it equitably amongst all people, then we'd raise the standard of living for ~80% of the planet's population, and dramatically reduce most of ours. We'd also reduce the overall human footprint, and we'd decrease the population.

But WE are not going to do this. It's not in our nature. Research shows a loss is felt more keenly than a gain (as shown by the recent threads about the loss of complementary CF upgrades). Despite all our talk, the rich industrialized countries are never going to willingly give up our privilege, our wealth and our power. Ain't gonna happen. Not until the bottom falls out of the global ecosystem and we see real death on our shores. Only then will we act, and by then it will be far too late.

This is why I'm pessimistic about humanity's chances. Actually, I would argue I'm realistic ... which is why I'm going sailing.

[goboatingnow]

Mike you don't understand , this is now a gedanken. Postulate wild solutions , I'm gunning for the " death ray" myself

Dave

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

A Scary side to be on?


"The United States Supreme Court endorsed aspects of eugenics. In its infamous 1927 decision, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind…. Three generations of imbeciles are enough." This decision opened the floodgates for thousands to be coercively sterilized or otherwise persecuted as subhuman. Years later, the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials quoted Holmes's words in their own defense."

Every developed country embraced some form of eugenics during this period. Some jurisdictions in Canada carried some forms of it on well into the 1970s. But we best not be so smug about how enlighten we are today. North America's prisons are filled with undesirable races, and those with mental health problems. Hard not to see this as another form of social engineering.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Mike you don't understand , this is now a gedanken. Postulate wild solutions , I'm gunning for the " death ray" myself

If that's the case Dave, them I'm reaching for my magic wand. POOF! All problems solved

... I'm still going sailing.

[Lake-Effect]

The overpopulation thing is a sideshow. 1 Billion or 11 billion, the solution lies in how these people live, not their numbers. No eugenics, no death camps, no forced population control required, ok?

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Change is the Natural State of the Earth and Man...yet as we can see from this thread it literally scares people enough that they would give away freedoms and liberties to protect themselves from the natural state of the universe: Change.

You say that, yet when I or others try to get some change rolling, you get the vapours about your "freedom" being taken away. Don't you recognize change (or the agents of change) when you see it?

(and keep off that wheeze about masterminds. Where is change going to come from, if not from serious people implementing solutions?)

Finally, if you're genuinely equating polluting less, alternative energy and trying to conserve resources with eugenics and the Holocaust, you're seriously deranged.

Trying to find the truth and a way forward is much more interesting than all-out gedanken, thanks.

[hpeer]

Mike,
I'm a life long Democrat, voted for Carter twice, lefty loonie tree hugger. I wish to God over population was not our problem, but it is. Every one on Earth wants the fuel rich life style we have so craftily sold them. So if you killed off all the high consuming Westerners, they would be replaced by high consuming somthing elsers.

Also, the 4 billion or whatever is a very high estimate of our sustainable population. I fooled around with these numbers a while ago, did some internet searches,read a bit, did some of my own thinking and I come up with 1 billion, on a good day. In fact, there is not much out there to support 4 billion.

No sense getting too riled up about these numbers, but I did want to point out that, despite our apparent disagreement, you and I are very much I the same political camp. I don't much like where my research has led me, but here is where I am.

Sorry.

[Krogensailor]

"Democracy only works when the majority of the Masses are well fed. ",,,,,
and ,

"if everyone lived like cruisers in terms of energy usage, self sufficiency, and the ethos of the cruising community. 95% of the complains we have seen in this thread about the end of the world would simply vanish."


I think these two observations have a great deal of truth in them. Lets feed, house and educate the people we have now and perhaps if we're not having to deal with all of the consequences of having so many people unfed/unhappy and uneducated, we can use the savings to fund solutions to future population/energy/environmental issues. A necessary prerequisite to achieving a fed and settled world/country is for those of us, who have it made, to set aside our incredibly stupid need to always see the problem as being those others over there. That guy, those people that see the world different from me. Those libs, progressives, smartypants, I think that word was used in this thread. There's this very one sided need to blame those that are doing something about what is needed, contributing their sweat and time in working on the issues. As opposed to endlessly obstructing anyone and everyone who attempts to work on the issues. No solution is the only solution that will please them. Most all of these threads get worn down by this not so subtle finger pointing. It's a shame because on the one hand some very good points are made and then there's the inevitable poke in the eye. It's a game stopper. People just walk away bored and dare I say hurt. It fosters apathy and cripples creativity. Then those smartypants make comments about mutant neanderthals etc,. Oh yea, that three breasted women is mutant Mary from Total Recall,, no? Anyway if we can resist sniping we can perhaps come to some socialistic consensus about what needs to be done.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Where is change going to come from, if not from serious people implementing solutions?.

And yet it always comes back to this doesn't it.

That a Free People are not smart enough to have a say in the Change. It must come from the masterminds, the special smart people, the "serious people", the same ones that were behind the eugenics! See how Eugenics and this whole topic of Human control comes perfectly into play. I brought the point up to illustrate just how dangerous these Ivory Tower Elite types can be when given too much control over the lives of people.

Some put their faith for the future in the "serious people", while others, including myself, put it where the United States founding documents tell us power resides, the people. The Average Joe. That my friends is what pisses off and Irritates the smarter than us masterminds. That their power is put in check by plumbers, garbage men and even a lowley cruiser Bozo at that pesky voting booth.

[robert sailor]

Freedom in the USA is a bit of a myth...you guys have been swapping it for security or perceived security for a lot of years.