2015 Bahamas gun check-in update "boarded"

[uglyduck]

Thanx for posting! We were just talking about this. what is legal to carry on your boat and where? Do the rules change off shore? What countries are okay with cruisers having guns and which ones aren't?

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by timbenner

My goal here is to disable the offending boat, since my catamaran is not going to out - run any body.

Originally Posted by jheldatksuedu

I don't consider myself a gun person, but understand the world we live in and have given much thought on how to be armed, even when they don't want you to be. It's one of the reasons I'm in a steel boat.

You know, you guys may be onto something, here...

Might the Ultimate Caribbean Cruising Boat of the Future, lie in the construction of multihulls out of STEEL ?

:-))

[Brob2]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

You know, you guys may be onto something, here...

Might the Ultimate Caribbean Cruising Boat of the Future, lie in the construction of multihulls out of STEEL ?

:-))

No no no, that's old, you don't see tactical dudes running around in steel vests. Ya just gotta' layer your fibreglass laminate with some Kevlar, and a few fibres in your sail laminates and BAM, you're good to go.

[timbenner]

Originally Posted by Formosa46AK

So I guess my 45-70 breakdown is legal. Had mine for awhile. Maybe $1500 now minus the scope and fancy case. Scopes are cheap. One shot and the noise will scare the varmits off. And, ya, it'll probably penetrate into the engine thru the length of the boat.

Nice gun. I like the way it breaks down.

[SVrider44224]

Slightly off topic, but only slightly.
Anyone have experience with firearms on the Great Lakes?
Not that I'm all that worried about Canadian pirates, but?

[Caribbeachbum]

Canadian pirates are hard to spot because they don't say "arrr." They say "eh?" instead, and it always sounds like a question you don't know the answer to. Also, they'll make you drink Moosehead beer and eat french fries soaked in gravy and curdled cheese.

[ob44]

Originally Posted by timbenner

I've never heard of a restriction on the type of gun, although I would question carrying a fully automatic weapon. Those usually come with a different set of rules.

The last time I checked into Spanish Cay, Bahamas, the Customs girl said to me "why do you need to carry a 50 caliper"?? (50 caliper Desert Eagle hand gun, 10" barrel, 1' group at 100 yards)

I explained to her that I carry that gun so that I don't have to shoot any people. Next she said "what do you mean"??

I explained that I carry that gun to shoot engines and hulls, not people. If local Haitian (whom are illegal immigrants, now stealing all over the Bahamas) fisherman in their fishing boat decide they want to board and rob me, I would take out their engine and compromise their hull. This way I could escape at 8 knots. It's not like we're going to out run anyone.

I would never let anyone board me at sea, without a well marked Police/Military Boat, badge, etc. If they insist they are official, but can't prove it, they can board me in a harbor with lots of people around. Other than that, I'm disabling their boat.

Here's another "pirate gun" I've recently purchased and am testing for the aforementioned purpose:
Product: Model 460XVRâ„¢ - 14" Barrel with Bi-Pod

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...0339_01_lg.jpg

My goal here is to disable the offending boat, since my catamaran is not going to out - run any body.

I know that many Americans feel strongly about their guns and imagine all sorts of scenarios where they would "protect themselves." But does that ever happen?

[jheldatksuedu]

Originally Posted by ob44

I know that many Americans feel strongly about their guns and imagine all sorts of scenarios where they would "protect themselves." But does that ever happen?

One of the premises that America was founded on, is that the population needs to have guns and overall be stronger than the government. History has shown that most societies in the past have fallen when the government feels it is strong enough to not worry about the populations strength of overtaking them.

Off topic but it explains a little about me: I don't consider myself a gun person, but I do own quite a few, and do often see the need for them as a deterrent. When guns are illegal, only the criminals have guns. I do believe we should shoot horse thieves, and boat thieves too. Our criminal justice system is in bad need of repair, a cop reported to me that only 3% of personal property crimes are punished. The last couple years I've been the subject of a 1/3 of million in damages at my house by a repeat criminal, police basically did nothing, even though we told them, who, where, why, etc. They asked him and he said he didn't do it, case closed. I spent 2 months and did the detective work, handed the police all the info. After threatening a lawsuit they finally decided to arrest the guy, we recovered one item, in the pretrial hearing the prosecutor made it obvious she had no intention of prosecuting, used none to the damming evidence I provided her. She lied to me, now I am preparing a class action lawsuit against the entire system. I have found many others with similar stories, but not the amount of damages as I. Horse and boat thieves, add crooked prosecutors to that list too..... I found out if I went back to my house and waited for the criminal to show up again and shot him carrying my stuff to his car I would be found guilty of premeditated murder. We can't even protect our possessions.... It would not even be legal for me to shoot his tires while he was driving away.

[svGenesis]

Originally Posted by Formosa46AK

So I guess my 45-70 breakdown is legal. Had mine for awhile. Maybe $1500 now minus the scope and fancy case. Scopes are cheap. One shot and the noise will scare the varmits off. And, ya, it'll probably penetrate into the engine thru the length of the boat.

LOL...405 grains... I used to shoot one years ago, the "kick" and percussion is enough to scare someone off!

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by ob44

I know that many Americans feel strongly about their guns and imagine all sorts of scenarios where they would "protect themselves." But does that ever happen?

Sure it does...

But, typically, "Only in America", it would appear...

:-)

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by jheldatksuedu

Off topic but it explains a little about me: I don't consider myself a gun person, but I do own quite a few, and do often see the need for them as a deterrent. When guns are illegal, only the criminals have guns. I do believe we should shoot horse thieves, and boat thieves too. Our criminal justice system is in bad need of repair, a cop reported to me that only 3% of personal property crimes are punished...

... We can't even protect our possessions....

I dunno, seems to me in most places one might be tempted to sail to beyond the the US, killing someone for attempting to steal your outboard or dinghy might still land you in a whole heap of trouble, far greater than those particular possessions might be worth...

Then again, perhaps that's just me... My outboard isn't worth much, it's only a 2 HP Honda, after all :-)

On the other hand, if someone tried to swipe my carbon fiber spinnaker pole, or Sailomat windvane, that might be deemed Justifiable Homicide...

:-)

[four winds]

There is a stat that is hard to find and hard to put a numbr on. It's on the FBI website somewhere.

The number of times annually that the mere presense of a lawfully owned gun stops the commission of a crime in progress, without being fired. The estimate is between 200k and 400k times per year. Yes, I realize that sounds absurdly high.

A popular gun magazine has a monthly section called "It Happened to Me" where personal accounts of these types of incidents are reported. Interesting reading.

There is a duality at play here. Like most things firearms are a two edged sword. Unfortunately, reporting of the bad, wrong, and unlawful edge and the good, right, and lawful edge do not get equal time in the popular media.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

Sure it does...

But, typically, "Only in America", it would appear...

:-)

Safest idea to me is simply to add the USA and it's territories to the very top of the 'places best avoided list' along with Somalia, Iraq and the Yemen, Oh ***'kit too late now because I live here now, I'd better get me one of the new $499 flamethrowers I heardabout so that I might dare get over to the fuel dock tomorrow.
We are having a voluntary USCG check later today, so I'll ask them if we need to declare a flamethrower whilst in Florida, apparently it is legal in most States.

Sorry for the sarcasm but this subject has been done to death so many times and neither side will change their views anyway.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by four winds

There is a stat that is hard to find and hard to put a numbr on. It's on the FBI website somewhere.

The number of times annually that the mere presense of a lawfully owned gun stops the commission of a crime in progress, without being fired. The estimate is between 200k and 400k times per year. Yes, I realize that sounds absurdly high.

A popular gun magazine has a monthly section called "It Happened to Me" where personal accounts of these types of incidents are reported. Interesting reading.

There is a duality at play here. Like most things firearms are a two edged sword. Unfortunately, reporting of the bad, wrong, and unlawful edge and the good, right, and lawful edge do not get equal time in the popular media.

I've lived in the north and the south, and you see a lot more of "man stops crime with gun" stories in the south. Maybe, it's a bias against those stories, or maybe it's just that more people in the south carry guns so that's the only place those stories happen much.

As for the thread, the last time I was in the Bahamas, I carried a Glock 9mm on my boat, and the customs man didn't blink and eye about it when I told him I had one. He just gave me the form to fill out.

For a country that doesn't really allow it's citizens to carry guns, the Bahamas are fairly laid back about foreigners having them. I worked in the Bahamas several years ago, and was a given a carry permit by the Bahamian government. It was the most fake looking piece of crap I ever saw (it was typed onto a form that looked like it had been photocopied about 600 times).

I never had to show it until I was flying out, when I had to show it to the Bahamian police at the airport. And, they couldn't have been less interested in the fact that an American was carrying a gun in their country with a crappy looking piece of paper for permission. Guns just aren't as big as an issue there as they are here, for whatever reason. Just declare them, don't lie, and you won't have a problem.

And, if you think having to shoot someone would be a disaster, one of the guys I worked with had to shoot and kill someone when he was working there. He had to go back and go through a court hearing about six months later, and the judge ruled it was self defense, and a good shooting (the guy he killed was shooting at him with one of those guns they don't have any of in the Bahamas), and that the matter was closed. So fears of being given a kangaroo court if you did have to protect yourself are unfounded as well.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by Group9

I've lived in the north and the south, and you see a lot more of "man stops crime with gun" stories in the south. Maybe, it's a bias against those stories, or maybe it's just that more people in the south carry guns so that's the only place those stories happen much.

However, more relevant to these threads, and I believe what most cruisers would be more interested in getting a feel for, is how often the use of firearms is actually resorted to by cruising sailors, during the course of a circumnavigation, or a Caribbean sabbatical cruise...

Seems to me, it's been pretty infrequent... The most famous incident that immediately comes to mind, I believe I linked to it in the earlier thread, involved the yachts MAHDI and GANDALF almost 10 years ago, in the waters off that increasingly popular cruising destination of Yemen :-)

http://www.cruisingworld.com/destina...tacked-pirates

In a place like the Bahamas, which very likely has a higher percentage of cruisers traveling armed than just about anywhere else on earth (excepting Svalbard, of course :-)), I'm hard pressed to recall a single documented incident in recent memory where the discharge of a firearm by a cruising sailor saved the day...

That's not to suggest it hasn't happened, of course, but it certainly does appear to be a pretty rare event... Perhaps someone can offer more, in the way of recent or not too distant examples?