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Old 12-11-2015, 07:54   #46
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
I would be carefull with connecting the XP pc up to the Internet. Microsoft stopped making mainstream updates for XP. There are already known exploits and the number will only grow as time goes on. No, a virus scanner will not protect you from these.

If you leave it completely disconnected, then you have nothing to worry about!
Read: Maybe

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
As for upgrading Win7, the end of support date is 2021 IIRC. That is when Windows 7 security updates will cease. All non-security updates have already ceased. So bugs that are not security related are no longer being fixed for Windows 7. But if you like Windows 7 and want to stay with it, then you have until 2021, at which point even security bugs will not be fixed.

Maybe.

Windows XP security upgrades were SUPPOSED to be abandoned but MS has been forced to continue those security fixes, while spreading FUD about whether that was actually happening to prompt us to move off of XP.
You are correct about XP and it will be the same for any other Win versions still in use including Win 7 unless MS start scuttling some version.
The simple reason as I understand it is that XP can harbour malware that could spread. These security upgrades come every month and because this computer is an XP I just downloaded the latest and have now to install it.

Even so that XP is not any more supported, people start to realize that money can still be made with XP. Seagate stoped supporting XP with their external hard drive then restarted. Sites stopped supporting Internet Explorer V8 but good business people realized that they could still make good money out of supporting Internet Explorer V8 and they do get my custom.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:50   #47
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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It wasn't the developers, it was the managers. Up till recently MS had a very broken internal culture. The new CEO (Satya) has made huge progress in changing that.
In 2011 I bought a Win 7. That thing was a bone (un os), a really bare one, absolutely of no value just a waste of money. I was so disappointed that I rung Microsoft au and asked them if they intended to put more meat on it and how they expected to sell such thing when hundreds of thousands of buyers where also so disappointed with Win 7 that they wanted XP back. Remember telling them they must have had rocks in their heads for not been able anymore to understand what the users would like to have.
I was able to load XP on that Win 7 but could not find any driver for the sound card so the desktop went back into is cardboard box and is still there. Then I bought two Asus P8H 61-MLE USB3 motherboards to make two XP desktops. Later I got a Win 7 Home Premium laptop with a little more meat but still not as versatile than XP.
Win 8.1 is better but will still not replace my four XPís. To me 10 is another bone. Obviously rocks are not so easily removed when they are held by greed.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:58   #48
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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In 2011 I bought a Win 7. That thing was a bone (un os), a really bare one, absolutely of no value just a waste of money. I was so disappointed that I rung Microsoft au and asked them if they intended to put more meat on it and how they expected to sell such thing when hundreds of thousands of buyers where also so disappointed with Win 7 that they wanted XP back. Remember telling them they must have had rocks in their heads for not been able anymore to understand what the users would like to have.
I was able to load XP on that Win 7 but could not find any driver for the sound card so the desktop went back into is cardboard box and is still there. Then I bought two Asus P8H 61-MLE USB3 motherboards to make two XP desktops. Later I got a Win 7 Home Premium laptop with a little more meat but still not as versatile than XP.
Win 8.1 is better but will still not replace my four XPís. To me 10 is another bone. Obviously rocks are not so easily removed when they are held by greed.
Hmmm.. Working in the industry for 20 years, I can say with %100 confidence that you are the exception and not the rule.

Windows 7 was a very well respected and loved OS (Vista was a pile of crap). Windows 10 is headed down the same path. I hear very few complaints and have worked on multiple projects migrating 1000s of PCs from Win 7, 8, 8.1 to Windows 10. I have been involved in the migration of over 10,000 PCs now so I think I have a pretty good sampling.

Frankly, I haven't seen a Windows XP computer used anywhere in a corporate or home environment for 4-5 years. Sailors on the other hand, seem to never change!
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:17   #49
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

You can go to Control Panel and turn off windows automatic updates also. If you have Windows 7 or 8, Microsoft will automatically upgrade you to Windows 10 soon, if you don't do that.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:38   #50
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Hmmm.. Working in the industry for 20 years, I can say with %100 confidence that you are the exception and not the rule.

Windows 7 was a very well respected and loved OS (Vista was a pile of crap). Windows 10 is headed down the same path. I hear very few complaints and have worked on multiple projects migrating 1000s of PCs from Win 7, 8, 8.1 to Windows 10. I have been involved in the migration of over 10,000 PCs now so I think I have a pretty good sampling.

Frankly, I haven't seen a Windows XP computer used anywhere in a corporate or home environment for 4-5 years. Sailors on the other hand, seem to never change!
Loved? Hmmm. Win 7 worked ok, but based on the same clumsy, flawed idea of a user interface started with the first Mac and badly imitated in Win 3.1.

Win NT ran much better, but zero improvement of the UI.

Win 8.1 is something totally, completely different.

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Old 12-11-2015, 13:25   #51
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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I

I continue to love, love, love Windows 8.1, the first time I have ever even liked any version of Windows.

.
Wow, I bit the bullet and upgraded to W10 because W8 was just horrible. Designed for a touch screen but implemented on standard laptops.
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Old 12-11-2015, 13:51   #52
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Wow, I bit the bullet and upgraded to W10 because W8 was just horrible. Designed for a touch screen but implemented on standard laptops.
Yup.. This is the most common complaint.. Windows 10 bridges the gap between laptop and tablet very well.

Of the traditional desktop OSes (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome), Windows 7 is the most widely used by a HUGE margin! People liked something about it
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Old 17-11-2015, 23:38   #53
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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I have been involved in the migration of over 10,000 PCs now so I think I have a pretty good sampling.
Hardly a reference.
Fast food outlets feed millions of people with Öfast food.
People eat that stuff because they do not know better.

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exception and not the rule.
I may accept that Sailors are maybe exceptional.
But do not accept that mediocrity be the rule.

Due to greed or inability, Microsoft does not have anymore what it takes to make a good Windows.
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Old 17-11-2015, 23:49   #54
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Yup.. This is the most common complaint.. Windows 10 bridges the gap between laptop and tablet very well.

Of the traditional desktop OSes (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome), Windows 7 is the most widely used by a HUGE margin! People liked something about it
People don't use Windows 7 because they like it. They use it because it's what came with their PC. Most people don't even know that there are alternatives to Windows.

You see the same with Linux: Most people using Linux are also just using it because the smartphone they bought came with it.
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Old 18-11-2015, 00:52   #55
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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From my perspective, Win10 /Win8.1 are great advances. You get full online functionality from a much lighter set of hardware components. The advantage is most pronounced in areas of the world where decent broadband is readily available. Microsoft is is capitalizing on the general frustration users have come to have with mobile internet and mobile internet devices. The internet operates on a set of standard protocols that should offer full functionality at any web location. A user should not need a special app just to view content on a page.
I use Win7, Win10, IOS on ipad, and two flavors of Android. Right now, Win10 is by far the best, most useful operating system. All the functionality of a desktop OS available on a mobile device....they have leaped over the competition. Their biggest hurdle going forward will come from users who have invested considerable sums of money in less capable Apple products and will not want to admit that they paid too much and are getting too little.
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The free windows 10 offer does have conditions. It's valid only for a certain time and is restricted to the machine it is installed on. i.e. once that machine is dead or replaced, you won't be able to reuse your Windows 10 license. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows 10 licensing changes to include subscription or single use (OEM style) licensing options only. I don't think MS have any sinister reasons for offering Windows 10 for free except to leave the Windows 8 fiasco behind as far as possible and to woo all the happy and contented Windows 7 users who would otherwise have no reason to upgrade. From all reports, Windows 10 is best described as Windows 7 with all the bits from Windows 8 that users actually liked added.
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I "UPDATED" to 7 because XP was no longer supported. Not only do they require updates, You cannot own the new office suit. My old OFFICE will not load by their $$ extraction plan. You must rent it now by the year. I suppose that when it expires while you are at sea, you will be incapacitated. I am so angry with their exploitation of the customer base. What a business plan. I may be going raspberry pie/Linux or re-loading 95, 98, XP and Office. Perhaps Mac. I think I am done with Mr. Gates knows best etc.
So will be many others, just waiting for someone else making a better OS.
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Old 18-11-2015, 01:36   #56
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Frankly, I haven't seen a Windows XP computer used anywhere in a corporate or home environment for 4-5 years. Sailors on the other hand, seem to never change!
legacy support for products using XP will probably continue for another 10 years but we use VM's for that now.
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Old 18-11-2015, 01:41   #57
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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People don't use Windows 7 because they like it. They use it because it's what came with their PC. Most people don't even know that there are alternatives to Windows.

You see the same with Linux: Most people using Linux are also just using it because the smartphone they bought came with it.
people don't care what OS is on their device.
they buy XY because their friend has it or because they like the looks or because it is cool or because they had the prior version.
some even buy it because they need a/the functionality.
the migration from PC to Laptop to Handheld devices greatly increased variety. i like that.
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Old 18-11-2015, 02:15   #58
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Re: On Board PC -- Automatic Updates

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
I "UPDATED" to 7 because XP was no longer supported. Not only do they require updates, You cannot own the new office suit. My old OFFICE will not load by their $$ extraction plan. You must rent it now by the year. I suppose that when it expires while you are at sea, you will be incapacitated. I am so angry with their exploitation of the customer base. What a business plan. I may be going raspberry pie/Linux or re-loading 95, 98, XP and Office. Perhaps Mac. I think I am done with Mr. Gates knows best etc.

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So will be many others, just waiting for someone else making a better OS.
Well, Nicholson 58 doesn't need MS Office. That kind of user needs OpenOffice or something like that.

MS Office is for intense professional users, for whom the continuous development and updating is worth the price of the subscription.

I have no problem with this system for my own usage. Office 2016 is full of improvements which are really useful in my work. And the cost is reasonable compared to buying a license and regularly upgrading. It would be nice, of course, if Microsoft had real competition, making it harder to exploit the installed best, and were less costly, but that's a different conversation.

The cost is reasonable NOW -- you can install it on FIVE devices, and move the installations between devices easily. So it's actually quite a bit cheaper than buying licenses, if you have multiple devices and would be upgrading frequently anyway. The cynic in me says that this advantage will disappear when they finally kill off regular licenses. I don't disagree that Microsoft is a rapacious company, which exploits imperfect markets. But that does not mean that they do not produce useful products, even good ones.


If I were at sea doing only personal things, with limited connectivity, I would ditch MS Office for sure. It's just not intended for that kind of use. I like OpenOffice very much, and there are a number of other choices.


Concerning Windows -- it's also not for everyone. Linux runs better, is open, and free. I think for many sailors this is the ideal OS.

But Windows is now a different OS from what it was. On my machine, 8.1 runs phenomenally well, incomparably better than Windows 7. I don't know why this is, but it is. The UI is maybe not for everyone, but it sure as hell is for me. It works phenomenally well for me. It is indeed not only for touch screens -- it works extremely well with touchpad gestures and arrow keys.

I think that the bottom line is that the Mac/early Windows idea of a GUI had some fatal flaws, and was even a kind of dead end. Having to move and drag virtual objects around in a formless virtual space is an extremely inefficient way to accomplish a discrete task, compared to a keystroke or other kinds of inputs, even choosing something from a menu. It's some kind of solution for users who are incapable or unwilling to learn a keystroke sequence, and that's the birth of the Mac in one phrase. For all of the many faults of early Windows, you have to give MS credit for some profound improvements to this primitive idea of a GUI -- of which the right click contextual menu is probably the most significant.

Windows 8 changes the virtual space of the GUI by adding granularity and structure to it. No longer is it just a formless "desktop" which you just pile icons onto. This builds on the idea of Android, but it goes far, far beyond that, and it is not, indeed mainly useful for touchscreens. And one argument for that -- suddenly, Windows 8 can be used pretty well even without a MOUSE, much less a touchscreen. Unlike the old Desktop, you can get around it efficiently -- extremely efficiently -- with keystrokes. Spend 10 minutes learning some of the keystroke shortcuts (some of them here: Mouse and keyboard: What's new in Windows - Windows Help) and it will blow your mind.

This is, finally, a GUI made for people with brains -- the exact opposite direction from Mac, which seems (to me) to be designed for chimpanzees (my sister, for years senior editor of MacWorld, will kill me for that remark ). I know the Mac system has quite a lot of keyboard shortcuts, but I've never seen anyone using them (other than the very basic ones like Ctrl X, Ctrl V, etc.) -- it just goes against the whole idea of the Mac system. Even real power users.

I realize that I am not a typical user so my point of view might not be applicable for everyone. The paradigm for interaction between man and machine for me is UNIX. I realize that this paradigm doesn't work today, when normal people have to be able to use with some amount of efficiency dozens or hundreds of different applications without any training. We used to have to take weeks long training courses every time we started using a new program in UNIX, and this is obviously impractical the way we use computers today. But the problem is that we've gone all the way to the other extreme, and no one learns anything anymore, even about their OS, much less about their applications.

You need to study Windows 8 a little bit -- just a little -- in order to be able to use it efficiently. Boy, does it ever pay off.

I don't know anything about Windows 10 yet. From what I hear, the differences to 8.1 are not profound. I don't mind the subscription system for Office, but I'm not sure I want my OS to be like that. So I haven't upgraded yet.
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