Internet Ubiquiti Bullet - Any Good ?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by foggysail

DotDun--

General networking question--- I thought networking routers entered a learning mode to allow adding a new address to their routing table. Do they have provisions that prevent "learning" private addresses such as 192.168.xxx.xxx?

Thanks--

Foggy

The private address space, defined by IETF RFC1918, is administratively blocked from being added to an Internet router's routing table. There is nothing technical that keeps these addresses from the routing table, except administration. A router 'learns' addresses via advertisements in a 'routing protocol', which there are many with each designed for a particular use (Internet or enterprise network, etc.). Obviously, for routers to exchange routing information, they must be running the same routing protocol. It appears the Bullet does not support any routing protocol, but does allow one to statically build a routing table. Hence you build a small network with multiple Bullets talking to each other via their WLAN and have a different network address range on each of the ethernets. You can statically tell each Bullet the address range of the other ones ethernet and you now have routers that know how to route traffic from end to end.

A simpler answer to your question: nobody is advertising the private address space, hence no router will add it to it's routing table.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Auspicious, a great tutorial!

Your points are well taken but unlikely to be useful to most boaters. I was balancing total and complete correctness with clarity.

As it happens I'm doing one of the things you mentioned on Auspicious. I have some hardware with limited flexibility for address assignment. My Raymarine E80 chartplotter insists on being in the 10.x.x.x (in fact it picks it's own address and I haven't been able to figure out how to change it at all much less move to another address range). I have a serial-to-Ethernet adapter that wants to be in 192.168.x.x; that one is changeable but requires a piece of expensive equipment I don't own and wouldn't use much. So I have DHCP on my Bullet serving 10.0.1.100 - .120 and an internal router serving 192.168.100.1 - .10 (including wireless for two iPhones and a second laptop). Everything is working except getting radar data from the E80 to the laptop; frustrating since chart data from the E80 chip IS getting to the laptop. I suspect I have a client software issue on the laptop and not a network configuration problem.

Will interesting to me and perhaps to you, going into routing private IP addresses struck me as unlikely to help in this case. *grin*

> The Bullet can also serve as a bridge (or 'SOHO' bridge).

Indeed. In fact for the campus networking function that the Bullet was originally built for bridging is very useful. If I recall correctly when you do a hardware reset (the little hole with a button behind it next to the RJ-45 connector) the Bullet comes up in bridge mode (I think - I've only had to do that once and just went through all the configuration tabs quickly and fixed anything I knew wasn't right).

For cruisers who are likely to relocate with some frequency bridge mode will--as you note--create greater frustration than using the Bullet as a router.

Nonetheless, thanks for weighing in and keeping me honest.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Your points are well taken but unlikely to be useful to most boaters. I was balancing total and complete correctness with clarity.

I understand completely. The only aspect I really want is for people to understand that private addressing IS routable, just not on the Internet due to administrative choice.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

As it happens I'm doing one of the things you mentioned on Auspicious. I have some hardware with limited flexibility for address assignment. My Raymarine E80 chartplotter insists on being in the 10.x.x.x (in fact it picks it's own address and I haven't been able to figure out how to change it at all much less move to another address range). I have a serial-to-Ethernet adapter that wants to be in 192.168.x.x; that one is changeable but requires a piece of expensive equipment I don't own and wouldn't use much. So I have DHCP on my Bullet serving 10.0.1.100 - .120 and an internal router serving 192.168.100.1 - .10 (including wireless for two iPhones and a second laptop). Everything is working except getting radar data from the E80 to the laptop; frustrating since chart data from the E80 chip IS getting to the laptop. I suspect I have a client software issue on the laptop and not a network configuration problem.

This is a tough one when you don't know what Raymarine is doing with their IP stack. My guess is they are using an off-the-shelf stack and probably didn't gut it, but certainly didn't include the UI needed to change it. It's interesting that you say chart data is working. That would imply that Raymarine has a default gateway configured and it matches your router's address?? It doesn't make sense that Ray is arping for the 192 address unless they did mess with stack (maybe rolled back the subnet mask?).

If you are only trying to get data between the laptop (192net) and Ray (10net), you might have luck with nailing down a NAT translation in your router. That way Ray would think it's talking to a 10net device. Is the app in the laptop a Ray product? Is it expecting to be on a 10net?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Users will probably find that bridge mode is harder to deal with as you will lose access to the Bullet due to IP address assignment now a function of the far away associated network.

The Ubiquity radios allow you to assign a secondary IP number to any interface in bridge mode as well as in router mode. So the Bullet becomes a transparent bridge but if you know that IP number you can still access it.

Originally Posted by foggysail

General networking question--- I thought networking routers entered a learning mode to allow adding a new address to their routing table. Do they have provisions that prevent "learning" private addresses such as 192.168.xxx.xxx?

ISP's get chunks of IP address space assigned, which they enter into global routing tables (this is BGP routing protocol). As nobody receives an assignment for private-use address space, nobody should announce it with BGP.... but they frak up and do it anyway. That's why all ISP's implement filters that block these addresses from entering their routing tables.

ciao!
Nick.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The Ubiquity radios allow you to assign a secondary IP number to any interface in bridge mode as well as in router mode. So the Bullet becomes a transparent bridge but if you know that IP number you can still access it.

Good to know. But my point was more that the normal end user will have statically assigned his IP address in order to talk to the Bullet @ 192.168.1.20. In bridge mode, the end user will then tell to Bullet to associate with 'Fred' network. In order to actually use Fred network the end user will then have to change his IP address to DHCP assigned (by Fred). At that point, in order to talk again to the Bullet, he has to mess with the IP addresses again.

I get around this by statically assigning the 192.168.1.x net address to a virtual machine with a bridged interface. I can then allow the host OS to use the Internet via the DHCP assigned address and the vm to talk to the Bullet. I realize this sound anal, but I hate double NATs.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by DotDun

At that point, in order to talk again to the Bullet, he has to mess with the IP addresses again.

The Ubiquity radios run Linux which allows a lot of secondary IP addresses... you could assign a "special" one out of each private-use cidr block so that there's always one you can use regardless what private-use IP you get assigned by DHCP.

I'm not sure if the AirOS user interface supports multiple secondary IPs but the command-line interface will.

btw... you sound like you need a nice little MikroTik router... I have the RB450 for the more interesting setups. From that you can connect a Bullet in bridge mode

ciao!
Nick.

[thatboatguy]

I'll be the third person to chime in with a personal recommendation for Islandtime PC. Outstanding tech support from a fellow cruiser. When you call, you talk to Bob himself and he puts things in terms anyone can understand.

I've taken the slow crawl up the learning curve and it can be done. I've at least achieved a working knowledge if not a deep understanding and I'm learning more every day. But I started out with a phone call to Bob on a system I was installing on a customer's boat.

Also we have a pair of Bullet's that worked perfectly in a cruising season in the Bahamas. Properly deploying them is very important. One thing I'd add to the cable discussion is that Ubiquity specifies shielded CAT 5.

George

George

[Velocir]

Does anyone know of a 12v dc Power Over Ethernet injector? I really don't want to go to all the loss of running it off an inverter.

[thatboatguy]

PoE Adapter: Industrial w/ redundancy. Passive Power Over Ethernet

Here's one.

[Auspicious]

Google 12 VDC poe injector and click on shopping. Should be less the $20.

[alaska_av8r]

Auspicious that post was phenomenal in clearing the cloudy skies for me! Excellent explanation in common sense terms. I am in the process of setting up a system on my boat using a bullet2hp with a router and that really helped. Be warned....I may come back with more questions.

thank you
tim

192.168.10.20 is an address in one of three private IP address spaces. Private IP addresses are not routed across the Internet; this is a purposeful and elegant solution to the problem of limited IP addresses.

This particular address space includes all the addresses between 192.168.0.0 and 192.168.255.255 inclusive.

In order to reach a device with an address in the private address space the device you are using for access must be on the same network segment (which just means there are no routers between the devices, only switches and cables) AND also have an address in the same space.

Note that the Ubiquiti Bullet is a router. Accordingly it will end up with two addresses: one on the

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Good to know. But my point was more that the normal end user will have statically assigned his IP address in order to talk to the Bullet @ 192.168.1.20. In bridge mode, the end user will then tell to Bullet to associate with 'Fred' network. In order to actually use Fred network the end user will then have to change his IP address to DHCP assigned (by Fred). At that point, in order to talk again to the Bullet, he has to mess with the IP addresses again.

I get around this by statically assigning the 192.168.1.x net address to a virtual machine with a bridged interface. I can then allow the host OS to use the Internet via the DHCP assigned address and the vm to talk to the Bullet. I realize this sound anal, but I hate double NATs.

The whole mess is really not realistic or usable for a regular user -- even a tech savvy user who has configured networks before.

You have to set a static IP address even to change the AP you are connected to!

The whole thing is crying out for some kind of interface. Maybe it even needs some kind of device interposed between the Bullet and your main computer or router.

[c.spots]

Bullet - last years technology?
I am considering a new system, and it may include the Bullet 2HP.
But I would like 802.11 b/g/and n, and I don't think the Bullet has the new "n" part. 802.11n is turning up in many places, and it would be a shame to miss out on its advantages.
My simple inexpensive USB Alpha has it, and this seems to be the direction the technology is going. I don't want to install a new, powerful system, with almost outdated technology.
Anybody know if I am off base, or if the bullet will soon come out with the newer tech. Any similar devices have 802.11n?
Also, I need to have the inverter on for the laptop, so a 110V system, including a router, makes installation much easier. Probably will get a 10-12 dB masthead antenna, since it is for a catamaran (and I can use the Alpha for closer signals).
Not being in the "lets make it more difficult mode", I would like to get a system from one of the vendors who offers good support. I would like to get the system soon, while I am still in American Samoa, where shipping is reliable and reasonable.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by c.spots

Bullet - last years technology?
I am considering a new system, and it may include the Bullet 2HP.
But I would like 802.11 b/g/and n, and I don't think the Bullet has the new "n" part. 802.11n is turning up in many places, and it would be a shame to miss out on its advantages.

Bullet M supports 802.11a/b/g/n

[Feral Cement]

Ebay is full of 1000ma wi-fi antennas that (I hear) will let you stream movies at a mile and check e-mail at 3 miles. Cost $20, plug n play. What makes the Bullet so special?

Thanks,

John