Handheld VHF radio that uses alkaline batteries?

[Halien]

We used an HX870 during a rescue at sea and learned a few things. If you're transmitting a lot the rechargeable lithium battery gives up pretty quickly. After that you'd better have the battery tray and a ton of AAAs handy and ready to load.

In our case the HX870--the ditch bag VHF--was our last working radio. It killed 25 lithium AAA batteries in the four hours or so that we tried to find--or be found by--the container ship that eventually took us aboard. This was at night, in 45+ knot winds and 9+ meter seas.

That seemed unreasonable, so when I got home I called Standard Horizon to complain. I learned instead that lithium AAAs have a discharge profile that cuts their useful life in radios with lots of transmission time. I did not know that. Their rep told me that lithium batteries generally are best suited for steady, low current applications, like a GPS, and that we should have been using regular batteries in the HX870 battery tray. Apparently their discharge profile allows the radio to operate even as the voltage begins to sag.

If your handheld VHF is your last-ditch communication tool, be prepared with a few dozen extra batteries, and don't buy lithium for the battery tray.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Halien

We used an HX870 during a rescue at sea and learned a few things. If you're transmitting a lot the rechargeable lithium battery gives up pretty quickly. After that you'd better have the battery tray and a ton of AAAs handy and ready to load.

In our case the HX870--the ditch bag VHF--was our last working radio. It killed 25 lithium AAA batteries in the four hours or so that we tried to find--or be found by--the container ship that eventually took us aboard. This was at night, in 45+ knot winds and 9+ meter seas.

That seemed unreasonable, so when I got home I called Standard Horizon to complain. I learned instead that lithium AAAs have a discharge profile that cuts their useful life in radios with lots of transmission time. I did not know that. Their rep told me that lithium batteries generally are best suited for steady, low current applications, like a GPS, and that we should have been using regular batteries in the HX870 battery tray. Apparently their discharge profile allows the radio to operate even as the voltage begins to sag.

If your handheld VHF is your last-ditch communication tool, be prepared with a few dozen extra batteries, and don't buy lithium for the battery tray.

Good lesson learned...and not the easy way it sounds like! Have you posted the details of this ordeal anywhere?

[captstu]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Sure.

Check out the HX870 from Standard Horizon.

Comes with a 1,800 milli-Amp.hour Lithium ion battery.

AND a AAAx5 alkaline battery tray.

I have a HX8700. The Lithium pack lasts about twice as long as the alkaline pack.

[freakytiki]

I just bought a standard COBRA handdheld for $50 new ..MR HH!@% and they come with a charger and 5 lithium AA batteries. But they tell you to keep alkaline AA batteries around for quick replacement.

Even though I put a small solar devive on my raft for emergency charging. I LOVE SOLAR

from their brochure....It is packaged with long-lasting rechargeable NiMH batteries that won't develop a memory when charging. It can also be used with 5 standard AAA alkaline batteries in emergencies.

So as long as the radio uses AA or AAA or 9V you can substitute at will

[hamburking]

I had a pair of Uniden Atlantis handhelds (walmart, $99). They each had a rechargeable battery pack and an alkaline battery tray. I've also owned several other handhelds, all came with alkaline battery trays in addition to the rechargeables. Otherwise, when the rechargeable battery dies, you are left with a brick. I always kept the spare tray full, ready to go. Was a good place to store extra batteries, as the radio took like 6 or 8 AAs.

And I agree with you. I was always topping up the rechargeable batteries, and never using them. The alkalines worked like a charge, they hold a ton of juice, and are cheap to buy. Unfortunately, very bad for the planet.

[roverhi]

If you are going to rely on solar for keeping your batteries charged better cruise only in the tropics. On a passage to Hawaii had 12 days of overcast and virtually no recharge of the batteries for 12 days of the 15 day passage. There are many areas where people sail either passing through or their regular sailing area that SUCK big time when it comes to solar.

If you want to guarantee the ability transmit have a radio that can use Alkalines and carry a bunch of them. They have a 10 year shelf life and are cheap in large quantities at Costco. One caution, do not store the radio or whatever with the batteries installed. If there is any draw on the batteries, there seems to be on a lot of electronics even when turned off, the batteries will drain and leak when fully discharged. Have ruined a couple of expensive electronics because the alkalines discharged and leaked.

[wrwakefield]

jsc7-

Pay attention to transmit power specs when getting a radio that can use standard [e.g., AAA or AA] batteries.

We keep an older RayMarine RAY101 model in our ditch bag. [Still available if you search diligently.] It is a well built basic marine VHF [i.e., Not Class D DSC] handheld that only uses AA batteries [6]. We keep lithium batteries in it, and have spares in the ditch bag. It is the only AA or AAA cell VHF I know of that will transmit at full power [5 watts in this case] using standard batteries.

We also carry SH HX870 radios on our person with the LIon rechargable battery they come with [1, 5, and 6w selectable.] We keep the AAA battery trays and spare batteries for these radios in our ditch bag as well. The HX870 is limited to 1 watt Tx power when using AAA batteries.

In case this is helpful.

Cheers! Bill

[flyingfin]

Just bought one last week from WMart dot com. Cobra HH350, under 100 bucks. It comes with re-chargeable batteries and base charger, optional equipment is a battery pack that uses standard alkaline batteries for your ditch bag. It is supposed to be water-resistant. Has good LED that is visible in daylight. Has scan and 3 channel -watch options

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Sure.

Check out the HX870 from Standard Horizon.

Comes with a 1,800 milli-Amp.hour Lithium ion battery.

AND a AAAx5 alkaline battery tray.

Second this, I have two of these and they are great. Normally sit in a cradle on the chart table charging, but I keep the battery trays and a couple sets of batteries in the ditch bag.

When going offshore, I plan to store the second radio (charged) in the ditch bag as well, along with the Satphone.

Regards

Mark.

Edit: After reading more comments. I'm going to add a few more sets of batteries to my ditch bag !.

Good thread.

[hellosailor]

Do they exist? "Yes but."

You may find that most of the new radios that offer a "battery tray" have a truly misguided marketing manager behind them. Even deceptively marketed.

If you take a typical h/t that transmits at 6W (and in an emergency you WILL want all that power) then it is taking some 10-12W of battery power to put out 6W of radio energy. Now look at AAA cells, the very best you can find, and see how long five(?) they can put out twelve watts of power at their rated voltage.

The great emergency "battery tray" seems to have a working life of less than five minutes of transmit time from the few I've seen. If they'd just go from those sexy slender AAA cells to AA cells...that would be quadrupled. But no, that's not sexy, it can't be marketed.

Somewhere out there, there must still be h/t's that can use AA trays. Somewhere. Maybe that Cobra does. If not...troll ebay, find a AA type. My "spare" is an older SH radio which uses ten internal NiCd cells, that I last replaced with NiMh cells with triple the capacity. Its old, its heavy, its faithful. It may not have DSC but it *works* and holds a good charge (like 75%) even after 9+ months on the shelf.

[HopCar]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Do they exist? "Yes but."

You may find that most of the new radios that offer a "battery tray" have a truly misguided marketing manager behind them. Even deceptively marketed.

If you take a typical h/t that transmits at 6W (and in an emergency you WILL want all that power) then it is taking some 10-12W of battery power to put out 6W of radio energy. Now look at AAA cells, the very best you can find, and see how long five(?) they can put out twelve watts of power at their rated voltage.

The great emergency "battery tray" seems to have a working life of less than five minutes of transmit time from the few I've seen. If they'd just go from those sexy slender AAA cells to AA cells...that would be quadrupled. But no, that's not sexy, it can't be marketed.

Somewhere out there, there must still be h/t's that can use AA trays. Somewhere. Maybe that Cobra does. If not...troll ebay, find a AA type. My "spare" is an older SH radio which uses ten internal NiCd cells, that I last replaced with NiMh cells with triple the capacity. Its old, its heavy, its faithful. It may not have DSC but it *works* and holds a good charge (like 75%) even after 9+ months on the shelf.

Icom makes two models that use AA batteries in their spare battery tray.

[Bawlmer]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Sure.

Check out the HX870 from Standard Horizon.

Comes with a 1,800 milli-Amp.hour Lithium ion battery.

AND a AAAx5 alkaline battery tray.

This makes three. The HX870 has an alkaline battery tray that comes with the radio at no extra cost. It is also a really cool, full full featured radio with built in GPS and DSC. Good for a life raft in my opinion.

[hellosailor]

I'd suggest the ICOMs that Hopcar mentioned, taking AA cells.

The SH is one the models I looked at and bought, foolishly not thinking ahead of time that the AAA battery tray is pretty much useless except for saying "We' right below you!" as the batteries will then be about dead.

I really like SH, their customer service has been outstanding, the product has been outstanding but what where they thinking.

ICOM is also a top name.

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by Minggat

I have this one as well.

You might Google “long term storage of Lithium ion batteries”.

They are different animals in that they live much longer if NOT stored long term with a full charge, but rather drained to 40-50%.

Also,
I now buy Energizer ULTIMATE Lithium AA & AAA 20 year life batteries after discovering that they worked so well in a camera I had. After much use, then much long term storage, they were still like new when I donated the camera away. I kept the batteries and said goodbye to the camera.

Familiar with the Energizer lithiums. Anyone know whether these work in marine VHF radios?

If I recall correctly there there is a difference between standard AA alkaline batteries and lithiums in their voltage outputs or something that make lithiums unuseable for some devices.

[hellosailor]

You really need to check with the radio maker.
There are integral differences in the way that lithium primary cells, alkaline cells, NiCd/NiMh cells provide voltage and current, which are also reflected in different internal resistances. Some devices don't care, others do. SAFT (the other main producer of lithium primary cells) even says not to use theirs when high current is needed, because the batteries have a limited ability to produce high current. Much the opposite of Energizer, who say their lithium cells allow for high impulse power (high current).

The really great thing seems to be that lithium primary cells, from either company, just don't LEAK all the time, the way all the alkaline batteries often do.