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Old 02-03-2015, 09:20   #1
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Guide to Marine Electronics

Ahoy!
I am a new-to-me boat owner (1983 Sabre 34, currently in NC) and am noticing how much electronics have changed since I owned my last boat in 1996.
Was schooled in analog navigating when my folks put me in USPS around 4 decades ago, and have relearned a lot through ASA classes. Am planning on taking their navigation class. I like charts! - and am adjusting (slowly) to what looks like their abandonment in favor of digital gear and screens.
Still, I need to get some electronics on my boat, which came with a knot meter, depth meter, wind speed and direction indicators.
Am trying to work my way up the learning curve of all the fancy and pricey electronics out there, but finding little guidance and learning resources. A nice book has a 1993 3rd edition, and seems dated.
I believe I need a chart plotter and autopilot a VHF and maybe AIS.

How do I get up to speed on all the options? I am currently in Colorado, with very limited access for face to face learning.

I know this is a very broad question, but could use some help.

Laura Jane
Westminster, CO (at the moment)
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:36   #2
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Hi from one Laura-Jane to another.
For a good, low cost and reliable system I would get.
Garmin GPS 16X connected to a laptop, possibly running Linux or Windoze, using OpenCPN. As a gps backup and for the AIS feed to the laptop a Standard Horizon Matrix with GPS built in. If your current sailing instruments are compatible with a communication system, then get the same brand autopilot etc. Need more info for a better idea. Private message or email, or we can skype. Contact via our web page below...
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:38   #3
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Welcome to CF!

You have named the basic items that you need to explore. You can get product descriptions for those items online, and then maybe narrow down your question to which manufactures CF users recommend. Furuno, Simrad, and Ray Marine are some of the large producers of such equipment, and there are others for AIS. Check out the difference between AIS receivers vs. transponders. There is a cost difference and your need of one vs. the other is subject to a lot of opinion and the type of areas where you will be cruising.
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Old 06-03-2015, 20:32   #4
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Welcome to CF, glad to have another Sabre 34 owner.


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Old 06-03-2015, 21:45   #5
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraJane View Post
<snip>
Still, I need to get some electronics on my boat, which came with a knot meter, depth meter, wind speed and direction indicators.<snip>

I know this is a very broad question, but could use some help.

Laura Jane
Westminster, CO (at the moment)
Where are you going and what are your navigational and communication needs?

Also what is your budget? The sky is the limit these days.

Quote:
I believe I need a chart plotter and autopilot a VHF and maybe AIS.
You need a VHF. Everything else is optional. My wish list for a moderate budget...

$300-$400 - vhf ais dsc
$1,200 - Vesper XB 8000 AIS transceiver package - XB-8000 AIS System | Vesper Marine
$1,200 7 inch chart plotter

$1,600 - Wheel Pilot - Not an expert in any way on autopilots but i would investigate this -

http://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-EV-1...F9M4R1HMS6B9DB

So if $5k is moderate to you this where I would be heading. If you are budget limited there are options.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:53   #6
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Thanks Ex-Calif.
At this time, my plans are for coastal cruising and then hopefully a trip to the caribbean; Bahamas, BVi and lesser antilles.
A budget? What a great idea. I want to keep it under $5000.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:01   #7
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Radar is more important than AIS. IMO.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:58   #8
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

One consideration is communication protocol. I would NOT buy any device that only communicates on NMEA0183. At some point you will want to network the data, if for no other reason than to have a second set of instruments below. Having all devices using wifi the same communication standard will make that easier.

That said, the Ray autopilots are the best value.

Also I purchased a VHF-AIS receiver over a year ago. For my purposes, I should have gotten a plain VHF and a separate AIS transceiver. So you may want to consider the simple radio and transceiver option.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:10   #9
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
Hi from one Laura-Jane to another.
For a good, low cost and reliable system I would get.
Garmin GPS 16X connected to a laptop, possibly running Linux or Windoze, using OpenCPN. As a gps backup and for the AIS feed to the laptop a Standard Horizon Matrix with GPS built in. If your current sailing instruments are compatible with a communication system, then get the same brand autopilot etc. Need more info for a better idea. Private message or email, or we can skype. Contact via our web page below...


Very good advice.
I'd probably add Radar? and AIS transceiver if going off shore.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:24   #10
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Modern electronics 101 :

NMEA 2000 is the newer protocol for communication between devices, so I'd recommend using that. 0183 is the older version. 2000 has some advantages, apart from speed : it's easy to add new devices to the network, and data is shared amongst everything.

So in my case I had a chartplotter and Airmar DST800, connected by NMEA 2000. Then I added an MFD for stand-alone display of speed and depth. All I had to do was add a T to the network backbone. Lately I added a wind instrument. Again, I just added a T and right away, the wind info is available on the network, and the speed and course data is available to the wind instrument so it can calculate true wind.

The main gotcha is proprietary calibrations. My plotter does not have a calibration routine for the speed paddle. I had to buy an MFD, which does. For this reason, even though NMEA 2000 is a standard across manufacturers, it's best to stick with one brand as much as possible.

Simrad and Raymarine have their own versions of NMEA 2000 cabling, called Simnet and SeaTalk NG. You can use adapters to connect these systems to NMEA 2000. They are really cabling systems, in that the sentences are the same.

With AIS, the big question is whether you want receive only, or transmit as well. Receive is great for seeing ships and their courses. For recieve only you can get a VHF with AIS receiver, and connect it to a chartplotter. I can see all the commercial traffic in SF Bay, and they show up on the plotter with projected course in a dotted line. Very handy. For transmit you need a transponder and forget the VHF with AIS, unless as a backup.

You want to connect the plotter to the VHF anyway, assuming it has DSC, as the VHF needs position info.

An autopilot is a godsend.
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Old 09-03-2015, 17:47   #11
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Hi,
Have not sailed my Sabre 34 yet. Heading to Wilmington, NC next month after some refitting work is done (I will have more to do when I get there).
How long have you had her? What do you love about yours? What do you wish was different? Where do you sail to? Is the electrical system adequate? Any info will be helpful.
Laura Jane
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Old 09-03-2015, 20:25   #12
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Laura,

New-ish owner of a Sabre 38 here! 1983 too. Welcome.

Honestly, if you are just doing costal sailing for a few years, I would buy a quality VHF with DSC and AIS along with a remote mic first. Went with a Standard Horizon GX2200 myself, but there are few others that fit the bill. Make sure you have a good antenna as well.

Everything else is gravy. If you are doing long trips, an autopilot would be next on the list. A wheel pilot should be sufficient for the 34 and anything in the Caribbean's, but you could go with a below deck if you want a bomber system that will take you across oceans (but at a cost).

If your wind/speed/depth indicators work well, I don't think you should spend any more on electronics till you want to venture off further or until the rest of the boat systems are upgraded. How is your anchoring system? How about your running rigging system? What about batteries and a charging solution? Not to mention before any of this your engine should be well looked after and any leaks / potential leaks (ie, old hoses, clamps, stuffing box) taken care of.

Use a smart phone app as your plotter. They work quite well for day sailing.

A year or so before you want to go south, then spend the big bucks on a full suite of electronics, ie, plotter, AIS transponder, radar, new networkable instruments, etc.

There is more than enough things to spend money on. First, find the ones with the biggest returns to sailing performance / comfort / safety then move to the shinny things.




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Old 11-03-2015, 06:13   #13
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

LJ,

I hear you loud and clear. I started sailing at the beginning of the electronics madness or glory we find now... I learned old school but slowly adapted to the e-school. Of course you can't be up to date EVER because the new gear and features are coming out such a fast and furious pace it would be insane to upgrade to the state of the art.

There are so very interesting features to electronics.... One is you basically build a system around a single multi function display... You probably know that so if you do... forgive me. The various data inputs plug in and the MFD's software displays the data in multiple ways and also integrates, analyzes and combines it. Of course you have digitized charts and the possibility for radar overlays, AIS overlays and so on. It's rather mind boggling.

Of course you really need only the same old basic data... your position, the depth, speed and wind data. The GPS actually conveys all but wind data... position on a chart will show you depth... most charts I believe the depth data is not digitized... it's just a graphic number.

The good thing is you can theoretically build in the complexity you want... starting with the MFD... adding transducers... depth, speedlog, temp, wind, radar, AIS... and add repeater displays with selectable data. The bad news is that this does get spendy.

The latest and greatest is that these instruments use a ethernet like wiring system called n2K... But who knows when this will be replaced by a wireless wifi like system????

Many MFDs are bundled with charts and some have an internal GPS antenna...

Another interesting aspect to e navigation is that many systems can talk and listen to a smart device android or apple via wifi giving you all manner of data on your cell phone or tablet.

I suppose no one is writing an overview because the state of the art is changing to face it work would be outdated by the time the ink dried on the paper.

Which leaves the consumer to use online resources to inform their decisions. Ask on this site and you will get very wise answers. There is also Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub which showcases all the most current marine technology and includes a comments section. But beware that a novice can easily feel lost... it's like wandering into a graduate physics course.

The stuff is probably too expensive but ironically worth it. A problem is that we spend too much time looking at screens and not enough time looking at the sails!

The electronics thing is very much like a rabbit hole you get sucked into and can't escape. But at least you know where you are to meter precision!

Good advice from fallingeggs about getting your boat ready to go... you do the essential stuff first... and you will figure out what's the next thing you NEED as oppose to just want.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:43   #14
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Laura Jane,
Like other recent threads on this subject...
Have to haves and wants
You're liable to get a wealth of opinions....some good, some odd....but as long as you remember that YOU make the decisions for YOUR boat and YOUR application, you should be fine....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraJane View Post
I am a new-to-me boat owner (1983 Sabre 34, currently in NC) and am noticing how much electronics have changed since I owned my last boat in 1996.

Am trying to work my way up the learning curve of all the fancy and pricey electronics out there, but finding little guidance and learning resources.

I believe I need a chart plotter and autopilot a VHF and maybe AIS.

How do I get up to speed on all the options? I am currently in Colorado, with very limited access for face to face learning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraJane View Post
At this time, my plans are for coastal cruising and then hopefully a trip to the caribbean; Bahamas, BVi and lesser antilles.
A budget? What a great idea. I want to keep it under $5000.
I'm going to use some of the answers I gave to this question just last week....and I'll highlight / bold type the specifics for YOUR application ("coastal cruising and then hopefully a trip to the caribbean; Bahamas, BVi and lesser Antilles."), and YOUR budget ("I want to keep it under $5000")....


First, I'd like to share some sage "Electronics Advice" with you....that, if you actually trust me and believe it, WILL save you many sleepless nights and many dollars.

{My apologies for this next paragraph, as I do NOT wish it to sound boastful in anyway....but rather just as an explanation of how I (and others) have come to the conclusions we have....from many decades of experience with this stuff, installing it, working on it, as well as using it....on the water...

FYI, I personally started my cruising/sailing life as a kid in the 1960's, and have ~ 45 years experience in offshore cruising/sailing....but most important here is that I have > 40 years experience in electronics / marine electronics, and have made my living in electronics / communications for > 30 years...}

Okay, here is this "sage advice":
--- The installation, wiring, hook-up, commissioning, programming, and weather-proofing of connections, of almost all marine electronics is the single most important criteria in making it work well, work as designed/spec'd to, work reliably, and interact well with you (and other electronics on-board)....

Yes, hi-quality gear from reputable manufacturers is almost always better than the discount-store /poor quality gear, but poor-quality gear properly installed almost always works better than high-quality gear poorly-installed...
(I hope that makes sense?)

The above is almost universally accepted as fact by most in the marine electronics world....although many who work for others are usually loath to publically admit the above is true...(I've been self-employed for > 30 years, so I have nobody to answer to, except for clients/customers!)

If you get lucky, you get someone that is actually interested in getting things done correctly, rather than just getting it done...



~~~~~~~~~~~~


Okay, now that the above is out-of-the-way....how about I get around to actually answering your questions??

With the understanding that you may literally need NO electronics at all, as many have sailed for decades (both coastally and around the world) without even electricity on-board let alone radios/electronics....
A good steering compass, a watch, and even some old, outdated charts will get you around the world!!!

Further, especially considering your desire to sail the Bahamas....understand that much of that will be eyeball navigation, along with a good depth sounder, and Explorer Charts....so, the "need" for a lot of electronics in the Bahamas is slight!!
So, you just might find that you may not need much in the way of "modern" electronics at all!!!

So, with that caveat behind us....here are some thoughts / recommendations for the "must haves", for most sailors/cruisers...in order of importance/preference (which would vary, depending on exactly where/how they're planning on sailing/cruising):

Remember, I'm highlighting / bold typing the specifics for YOUR application ("coastal cruising and then hopefully a trip to the caribbean; Bahamas, BVi and lesser Antilles."), and YOUR budget ("I want to keep it under $5000")....

1) Marine VHF-DSC-FM, with a good masthead antenna, fed w/ low-loss cable (properly weather-proofed)...
Figure about $500 - $750 for new hi-quality radio, new low-loss coax/connectors, and new antenna...all-in...
(and, when heading offshore / to remote locales, a spare antenna and short length of cable w/ pre-assembled connectors...)


2) Depth-sounder, accurate and calibrated....
Typically incorporated in with other electronics, but can be stand-alone depth sounder....figure about $500 - $750, all-in...
(along with a lead-line)


3) Autopilot or "self-steering"....an almost absolute "must have" for long-range cruising, ocean crossing, etc....but, for coastal cruising this can be pushed down the list, if budget is being squeezed....
A good quality, heavy-duty, below-deck, autopilot is going to be the BIG ticket item here....but take it from me, this is NOT an area to skimp in....(if budget is squeezed, skimp elsewhere...such as items way down the list...)
Figure about $3000 - $3500...all-in


4) GPS....depending on the model, usually multiple GPS's.... (and spare batteries for the handheld GPS's...)
Depending on model, features, screen size, etc....this can range from $100 - $300...(even small chartplotters can be had for well under $1000...)


5) EPIRB, properly registered (updated every 2 years) and tested annually...
Figure about $500 - $600...(here again, skimping is a no-no...)

EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds



6) Handheld VHF-DSC-FM radio, w/ spare battery...
Figure about $300 - $400 (including spare battery)...


Using my general dollar figures, this comes out to be a bit above your budget...about $5000 to $6000 over all, all-in...
BUT...
But, you / your boat may already have some of these things and/or you may find that you can do without the "hi-quality" units that I was figuring ballpark pricing of....
So, the list above should be good for you!!


And, that's pretty much it for the "must haves"....along with decent charts (Explorer's Charts for the Bahamas), and a simple $100 portable SW/SSB receiver, the list above will get you all along the US coast, to/from the Bahamas, and Caribbean, etc. (and pretty much around the world), safely....
Most of the other electronics are in the "nice to have" / "want" category...
(of course we are assuming that you'll have the boat equipped with all the required nav lights, etc. so that is not really part of this "electronics" discussion...)



And, in the "nice to have" category:

7) Weather info / forecast access equipment...

At the least, a simple $100 portable SW/SSB receiver, will give you access to US NWS Offshore and Hi-seas VOICE weather forecasts....

WeFax, Voice, NAVTEX, and SafetyNet reception equipment, such as HF Radio / Marine SSB, NAVTEX rec, INMARSAT-C, etc...

Offshore / Hi-Seas Weather data / forecasts

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zdjTJjHlChruyY


[I'd also include a good ext. Wi-Fi set-up (about $250...) and/or an ext cellular/3g/4g/LTE antenna set-up, here in this category....as these can be very useful for accessing weather info/forecasts when in port, anchored, and/or close-to shore sailing coastally...as well as allow easy / cheap e-mail and phone connectivity to the outside world when in port or in near coastal waters...]



8)Collision avoidance electronics, such as AIS and Radar...
a) Class B AIS is getting inexpensive enough and will soon become commonplace, but I doubt will become ubiquitous unless there is gov't mandates (let's hope not)....so, although it's not a "must have", having a Class B AIS transponder is good idea...
Figure about $850 - $1000, all-in...

b) Radar is useful in some places where visibility is compromised or there are many vessels/obstructions to navigate around, and darn near a necessity in someplaces (i.e. FOG)....but in other places (Caribbean, etc.) is never needed...
So, depending on "where"/"how" you sail, radar can be near the top of the "want" list, or on the "never need it" list...
If you include this with a chartplotter, it will add about $1000 - $1500....but, for YOUR application is unnecessary....


9) Long range radio communications equipment....such as Marine SSB (HF-DSC-SSB radio)...
For most offshore sailors / cruisers in remote locales, this is also part of their "weather access equipment" (see #7 above)....so, you may already have this covered above...
But, once you are out of cellular/mobile phone range (a few miles offshore at best), this is your only link to the outside world....for weather, communications, telephone connections, emergencies/distress calling, contacting other boats, e-mails, etc....without this, you're on-your-own...

Figure about $2800 - $3000, all-in....


New HF-DSC Explanation and LIVE Demonstration Videos

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX


Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use/properly-install SSB)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y


Icom M-802 Instr Videos(basic-adv) & LIVE DSC-Distress Call

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr




LauraJane, please note that these next items (#10 - #14) I am NOT recommending for you, nor your application....but rather these are what I included in the other thread, when discussing all "nice-to-have" electronics for offshore cruising, especially to remote areas and ocean crossings...so, you can ignore them all, if you want...

10) Second EPIRB, and/or PLB's...
Another few hundred dollars....

11) Chartplotter and electronic charts (but this is typically incorporated into a "radar" unit, and is covered in item #8 above...)
Depending on size and features, these can run from $600 - $4000...

12) Some type of "sailing instruments", wind and boat speed instruments....
(although having a "boat speed" sensor can be very important to understand how the current is effecting you...the set/drift....and I find it VERY helpful....the unfortunate fact is, that most new sailors/cruisers don't use this info much...)
Figure about $1000....

13) Some type of "sat comm" gear....
Although, for some serious offshore sailors and round-the-world types, an INMARSAT-C terminal (as described above in the weather access equipment category, #6 above), will have already been fitted from the list above....there are many less serious cruisers who may find a handheld sat phone (especially one with a "docking station" and ext ant.), such as an Iridium phone to be a nice thing to have....as it can provide a second way to make phone calls / get e-mails when at sea, as well as serve as a back-up means of accessing weather info/forecasts....
Figure about $1500 - $2000, or more....all-in...


14) Entertainment electronics....such as a nice stereo (w/ cockpit speakers mounted WELL AWAY from any compasses!), TV, DVD Player, digital cameras, etc...
Figure a few hundred dollars as a minimum....up to as much as $1000...


[Please take note that items, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14....can be very easily rearranged, depending on both personal tastes and where/how you'll be sailing/cruising... ]


BTW, you didn't mention anything about your electrical system, alternative energy system, etc...
BUT...
But, understand that ALL of this stuff needs electricity to work!!!
And, the more "electronics" you have, the more "electricity" you'll need!!
Please consider this as more "sage electronics advice"....you cannot design an electronics system without also considering your electrical system, power consumption, and generating/storage capabilities!!!



I do hope this helps you out some....
If you need more clarification, just ask...

Fair winds...

John
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Old 16-03-2015, 14:56   #15
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Re: Guide to Marine Electronics

Hi John,

The boat is currently equipped with a depth meter, knot meter, wind direction and speed indicators on the companionway bulkhead facing the cockpit. The displays, especially the analog ones for depth and speed are small and hard to read. Am wondering if I can upgrade the displays to something larger. The wind speed is an analog display as is wind direction. Also kind of small, but maybe a little more readable.
I suppose they should all be calibrated or "checked"?
Am thinking an autopilot and VHF will be my first purchases as I anticipate single handing and besides being required, VHF sounds safe/smart.
The amount of overlap and redundancy in these systems (AIS/GPS/Chartplotter/autopilot is a concern on my limited budget. Although they made provide some backup in case one system fails. Still, thats a lot of amperage and cost.
LJ
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