Boat internet system recommendations

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

The number of simultaneous connections is limited by the hardware and software at the tower. Again, only dense urban areas and in emergencies does that get overloaded. It's limited by the number of time slots and the pressure on that is being releived in most places by fill-in towers and microcells. Rarely an issue.

I completely disagree. I travel a lot and pay close attention to cellular signal and speed. There are cell towers that are a constant issue. I have been able to get the carriers to acknowledge and they state that the towers are overloaded and its not a back-haul issue but their radios on the tower have hit a ceiling and there are too many users in the area connecting to the tower. For one particular carrier, they have at least told me they are committed to resolving in the next few months but the other carrier says they have no plans and to use WiFi which does not work for me. They dont care that hundreds if not thousands are impacted. These are in suburban or rural areas not dense urban areas.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by mystery

I completely disagree. I travel a lot and pay close attention to cellular signal and speed. There are cell towers that are a constant issue. I have been able to get the carriers to acknowledge and they state that the towers are overloaded and its not a back-haul issue but their radios on the tower have hit a ceiling and there are too many users in the area connecting to the tower. For one particular carrier, they have at least told me they are committed to resolving in the next few months but the other carrier says they have no plans and to use WiFi which does not work for me. They dont care that hundreds if not thousands are impacted. These are in suburban or rural areas not dense urban areas.

The tech support people may not care but I can assure you that management does. I travel a lot also and at one time was a Federal executive responsible for cellular operations. Individual towers that are overloaded by connection count on a regular basis raise flags. That leads to new towers, subsecting coverage areas, microcells, and other mediation. It won't happen in a week. Most of the delay is due to local permitting issues and often public objections. For some reason parents are okay with phones glued to their kids heads but not towers behind the baseball field.

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

The tech support people may not care but I can assure you that management does. I travel a lot also and at one time was a Federal executive responsible for cellular operations. Individual towers that are overloaded by connection count on a regular basis raise flags. That leads to new towers, subsecting coverage areas, microcells, and other mediation. It won't happen in a week. Most of the delay is due to local permitting issues and often public objections. For some reason parents are okay with phones glued to their kids heads but not towers behind the baseball field.

Well given I wasnt speaking with tech support and rather someone in the executive office, I am relaying exactly what one carrier's executive told me "it is a known coverage issue with marginal to zero cell service expected, and no plans to improve service at this time". This is impacting several hundred households in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the USA. They said the issue is too many subscribers in the area and the need to overhaul the tower. They were at one point trying to install small cells that were quickly and fully approved by the local regulatory authorities but no progress made by the carrier to-date on actual install. I know of a second location where the same thing is happening except they need an additional tower to improve coverage and everyone is against cell towers, even small cells, in that case I can understand its out of the hands of the carrier.

In terms of raising flags, I disagree with you. I can't tell you how many times I have escalated a cell tower issue that the carrier's automatic monitoring did not catch. I recently experienced three separate issues in completely different locations: one tower was completely offline and the carrier did not know. they had a crew dispatched immediately and tower fixed within a day. a second issue where a tower was online but basically not working due to some radio issues possibly caused by a lightening strike. the carrier did not know until i escalated and they had to replace some equipment it took them a few days to sort. then there was another tower that had a back-haul issue and the carrier was unaware they were able to make some back-end changes on their network and it was quickly fixed once i escalated and was persistent. I have heard of plenty of similar stories from others raising cell tower issues that the carrier was unaware of.

[Auspicious]

Big four US carriers? How do you as a user discriminate between capacity and backhaul? How are you determining which tower you are connected to?

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Big four US carriers? How do you as a user discriminate between capacity and backhaul? How are you determining which tower you are connected to?

There are tell-tale signs that lets a user form a pretty good idea as to what is going on. Signal strength, bandwidth, remaining connected v getting bumped off, time of day, local events, etc, are all inputs into making an educated guess as to what is going on. Can I as a user know for certainty what is going on? Many times, no, some times, yes. That is why I speak with the carrier to raise issues, get confirmation, details, etc. Some carriers are happy to share information. Others are not. It also helps if you have a major account / contacts at high levels but theoretically any customer can escalate issues to the top.

As for which tower one is connected to, again, can make an educated guess depending on cell tower location, my location, signal strength, bands available, some things may indicate whether you are connected to a tower versus small cell, etc. Can one know for certain? many times no, some times, yes. Carriers can tell which tower you are connecting to and I've had some willing to confirm that information.

I am not looking to get into an argument with you. Just pointing out what you think you know may be a bit narrow.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by mystery

...making an educated guess as to what is going on.

Let me help you. A simple speed test will identify a backhaul problem.

Your device GPS uses the location of the cell tower as a seed. Do a hard reboot on your phone and open an app like Google Maps, Apple Maps, Waze, Aqua Maps, ... anything that uses GPS. You'll get a location centered on the cell tower you are connected to until the GPS catches up.

You can get bumped off for lots of reasons. Roaming is a big one. Organic subsribers come first. If you aren't moving and get bumped you're probably either low signal or roaming. If you're moving and drop a hand-off the cell may be over capacity for connections. Tier 1 support won't know. They're working off flip cards. The data gets aggregated and ends up in reports that are paid attention to, at least by AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint, Orange, Lime, and Digicell. I'm not sure about BTC but I'd be surprised if they don't.

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Let me help you. A simple speed test will identify a backhaul problem.

Nope, not necessarily on plans that are deprioritized.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Your device GPS uses the location of the cell tower as a seed. Do a hard reboot on your phone and open an app like Google Maps, Apple Maps, Waze, Aqua Maps, ... anything that uses GPS. You'll get a location centered on the cell tower you are connected to until the GPS catches up.

mine goes to the last known location.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

You can get bumped off for lots of reasons. Roaming is a big one. Organic subsribers come first. If you aren't moving and get bumped you're probably either low signal or roaming. If you're moving and drop a hand-off the cell may be over capacity for connections. Tier 1 support won't know. They're working off flip cards. The data gets aggregated and ends up in reports that are paid attention to, at least by AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint, Orange, Lime, and Digicell. I'm not sure about BTC but I'd be surprised if they don't.

k

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by mystery

Nope, not necessarily on plans that are deprioritized.

By "deprioritized" do you mean you've run beyond the data cap or is your carrier a reseller like StraightTalk or Google-Fi? Who is your carrier?

Originally Posted by mystery

mine goes to the last known location.

That is odd behavior for AGPS which to my knowledge is used on all phones since about 2000. What handset do you have? With that characteristic if you travel by air it will take quite a while to locate itself when you land. The whole point of AGPS is to locate quickly. That's why it takes so long to get a position offshore out of range of cellular networks.

[Brian Pokosh]

I'm looking for some help with antenna selection for a Peplink MAX BR1 MK2.

The BR1 has connections for two cellular antennas. It looks like this is for MIMO and not diversity, and that MIMO is more important in an urban environment. On a boat, do I need to use both, and if so, does it matter how spread out they are? The cell antenna I am looking at is the Wilson Wide-Band 9.8" Marine Antenna with the 1" x 14 threaded mount.

Same questions for the two wifi antennas. I have a separate indoor wifi access point so I'm primarily using this for Wifi as WAN (even then very rarely does the shoreside wifi outperform our cell service).

[SweareDeep]

Originally Posted by Brian Pokosh

I'm looking for some help with antenna selection for a Peplink MAX BR1 MK2.

The BR1 has connections for two cellular antennas. It looks like this is for MIMO and not diversity, and that MIMO is more important in an urban environment. On a boat, do I need to use both, and if so, does it matter how spread out they are? The cell antenna I am looking at is the Wilson Wide-Band 9.8" Marine Antenna with the 1" x 14 threaded mount.

Same questions for the two wifi antennas. I have a separate indoor wifi access point so I'm primarily using this for Wifi as WAN (even then very rarely does the shoreside wifi outperform our cell service).

I have the same setup as you with the BR1 providing cellular and Wifi as WAN with a below-decks separate wifi router.

I went with a Cradlepoint 170654-001 antenna, mostly to avoid sprouting an antenna forest off the back of the boat. It's been good but not spectacular. No doubt if I'd gone with a higher gain antenna it would have been a little better, though I suspect much of the gain comes from getting the antenna out from down below.

[Brian Pokosh]

Originally Posted by SweareDeep

I have the same setup as you with the BR1 providing cellular and Wifi as WAN with a below-decks separate wifi router.

I went with a Cradlepoint 170654-001 antenna, mostly to avoid sprouting an antenna forest off the back of the boat. It's been good but not spectacular. No doubt if I'd gone with a higher gain antenna it would have been a little better, though I suspect much of the gain comes from getting the antenna out from down below.

If we want two cell, two wifi, and another GPS (do we really need GPS on the pepwave) then a 5-in-1 might be the only option. Did you look at the Poynting MIMO-3-V2-15 5-in-1?

[SweareDeep]

Originally Posted by Brian Pokosh

If we want two cell, two wifi, and another GPS (do we really need GPS on the pepwave) then a 5-in-1 might be the only option. Did you look at the Poynting MIMO-3-V2-15 5-in-1?

Quite agree, the GPS is unnecessary for us. MY N2K network has 5 GPS receivers across various devices (chart plotters, AIS, etc) already! I think a lot of Pepwave's market for these things is shuttle buses and the like, and the GPS can be used for fleet tracking purposes.

I don't recall looking at the Poynting unit, though it's quite a bit bigger and it looks like fabricating a means to mount it might be a little more involved.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Brian Pokosh

I'm looking for some help with antenna selection for a Peplink MAX BR1 MK2.

The BR1 has connections for two cellular antennas. It looks like this is for MIMO and not diversity, and that MIMO is more important in an urban environment. On a boat, do I need to use both, and if so, does it matter how spread out they are? The cell antenna I am looking at is the Wilson Wide-Band 9.8" Marine Antenna with the 1" x 14 threaded mount.

Same questions for the two wifi antennas. I have a separate indoor wifi access point so I'm primarily using this for Wifi as WAN (even then very rarely does the shoreside wifi outperform our cell service).

I'm a fan of the Shakespeare 5239 antenna for cellular. Performance is good and comes set up for standard 1" marine mounts. Broadband so if you leave US/Caribbean and replace your Peplink with something else with appropriate frequency coverage you won't have to replace the antenna. I use RG-214 for the main coax run with a short jumper cable to get to SMA for the Peplink.

For WiFi I use Air802 antennas. Again, good performance and mounts that work well on boats.

Antennas on radar poles, arches, or spreaders. Nothing on the masthead except the marine VHF. The point of MIMO is in a high multipath environment. If you stop at a traffic light in a car and your FM radio is scratchy pulling forward a foot will often make it better. That's multipath. Minimal impact underway or at an anchorage, may be a factor in a marina full of other sailboats.

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Brian Pokosh

I'm looking for some help with antenna selection for a Peplink MAX BR1 MK2.

The BR1 has connections for two cellular antennas. It looks like this is for MIMO and not diversity, and that MIMO is more important in an urban environment. On a boat, do I need to use both, and if so, does it matter how spread out they are? The cell antenna I am looking at is the Wilson Wide-Band 9.8" Marine Antenna with the 1" x 14 threaded mount.

Same questions for the two wifi antennas. I have a separate indoor wifi access point so I'm primarily using this for Wifi as WAN (even then very rarely does the shoreside wifi outperform our cell service).

i have the mk2. i have been having some wifi connectivity issues. i dont know if its the wifi network i am connecting to, the hardware, or my setup. i was originally told that i could just use one wifi antenna and use a terminator on the open port B. i purchased the poynting omni-496 , 20 foot lmr-400 run, but the wifi doesnt hold a steady signal. so far i have tried a replacement antenna, now trying a replacement mk2 and replacement lmr-400. i am hearing that the mk2 (like most devices) may require an antenna hooked into each port (port A and B). i specifically did not want to have 3-4 antennas on my boat which is why i was happy with the poynting omni-496 and capping off the open wifi port B with a terminator. i have been doing some extensive testing. hoping to have a better idea what is going on in the next week. ps. those puck antennas are not ideal to use on a boat. pps. poynting now makes an omni-402 MIMO cellular antenna which i was thinking about replacing my wilson with but have limited room for more lmr-400.

[notz]

I've used and tested the Wilson, Shakespeare, and a ton of other non-marine antennas, as well as a bunch of puck or multi-element antennas. By far, the multi-element ones performed the worst, and while they might look attractive to save space, don't offer much of a benefit over just using directly connected factory antennas on the Peplink gear.

My favorite for the last 2+ years has been the Wilson because of it's construction and performance. The Shakespeare is a close second, but underperformed slightly compared to the Wilson - not that much, but enough that the Wilson was just a little bit better.

I have several Poynting antennas, including the new 2x2 MIMO one you mentioned, and am pretty pleased with it so far, but I like giving things a few months (or longer) before claiming success.