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Old 12-06-2018, 19:36   #1
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B&G Wind Instrument problem

I have a brand new boat with a fairly complete B&G setup that has not worked right since day one.
two 12" ZEUS 2 displays on port and starboard pods
two autopilot contollers on port and starboard pods
four H5000 Graphic displays (2 port, 2 starboard)
Digital 4G broadband radar.
one 9" ZEUS 2 display below at the nav station
Hydra computer
NAIS 400 transponder
CZONE bridge
The topology is SUPPOSED to be set up so that if I lose the network for the starboard pod the port will still be OK. Diagram of the install is attached.

They did NOT use H5000 sensors in the network. Turns out they used TRITON wind at the top of the mast (508) and DST200 boat speed sensor.

Here is the problem:
Boat speed works, depth works. AIS works. chartplotter and radar work. Wind has been a constant problem. It worked for about a month last year after taking delivery but has been out for most of the time I've owned the boat.
All firmware has been upgraded to the latest level. So no one can say "call me back when you have updated your system"...

When we do a refresh on the network, it does not see the masthead unit. Instead it seems to see an H5000 MHU which is not there.

We replaced the unit at the top of the mast. No difference. (so not that)

When we relocate a new masthead unit to the bridge at the base of the mast, it still does not see it. (so not likely a masthead cable problem).

The above test used a new mast cable, so it was still an 84' mast run (or thereabouts). Distance and signal boosting could still be a possibility..
So... we cannot even see the device. It seems to see an H5000 unit that isn't there, and I don't have a wind instrument 3 months now into the season.

I'm told a diagnostic tech needs to hook up a laptop to the computer and find out what's going on, but this seems like more "try something" stuff.



Anyone have any ideas?

With the Bermuda race happening this week, our electronics guy has been giving me an hour/week for the last four weeks and its driving me crazy not having this fixed.

Rick
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Old 12-06-2018, 20:24   #2
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

Not good for a new boat !

Do you need an instrument to tell you wind speed and direction ?
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Old 12-06-2018, 20:52   #3
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

That is sad, and I am sure it is frustrating.

Electronics and instruments can be plagued by gremlins.

On a positive note...
I just got off a 600nm voyage using a somewhat similar B&G Zeus system that worked perfectly. It spoiled me because of all the integration of data and ease of use and graphical interface and options and large displays. I loved using it! I am now spoiled and want one!

Good luck on finding your solution.

You have already tried what I would have suggested.
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Old 12-06-2018, 21:03   #4
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

Have you tried using a short (like 6') cable and a borrowed masthead unit, plugging them in and seeing if it detects that?
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Old 13-06-2018, 04:34   #5
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

A short cable would definitely tell if its a distance issue. That's a quick test. I have to wait for my next "time available" visit to try that as well as other tests.


I like the zeus system, although the jury is out on the touch screen interface (I'm used to the Raymarine soft keys and dial system) and a few items which are more difficult to use than I'm used to. For example: MARPA. To track a target using MARPA requires about 7 touches of the screen, by which time the object has probably hit you. They need some way to customize menus and / or create fast paths for commonly used functions.



I like the integration and its clearly superior to my Raymarine E120 in terms of sailing functionality and power consumption, but will take some getting used to.


Rick
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Old 13-06-2018, 05:14   #6
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

My guess, its an NMEA2000 termination issue (in your case, Simnet, which is the same thing). The symptoms you describe are fairly classic of that.

I have the same mast head device on our boat. That device has a built in terminator and MUST be installed at the end of the backbone (frankly the only way a NMEA200 masthead device can work due to length restrictions on the network physical length). Then there must be a terminator at the other end of that backbone.

I spent a little time looking at the schematic you provided. Unfortunately its quite low resolution (even when I downloaded it). However, that is one damn convoluted setup. I'm not sure the schematic is correct as I can't see how the network would even operate in that setup (e.g. in the schematic the DST200 would be outside the terminated network).

Personally, I would need to actually look at your boat, then trace the cables and draw my own schematic. I willing to bet I would discover a terminator out of place (most likely the masthead unit). That would be the first place I would start.
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Old 13-06-2018, 07:32   #7
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

unfortunately, this forum doesn't allow high resolution graphics to be uploaded. I had to give my document a lobotomy to attach it.



That said, I tend to agree with it smelling of a network topology/termination issue. The network seems overloaded on one side to me as well. We've looked at the terminators and they *SEEMED* ok, but I've spent the last 10 years with SEATALK HS, not NMEA2000/SIMNET.



That said, I've vented to B&G and the dealer and they have some national support coverage for B&G committed to my boat in the next few days. We'll see.
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Old 13-06-2018, 07:37   #8
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

Sofa diagnostician here, but I thought you could measure the resistance of the network (when all powered off and devices disconnected) and assess whether the terminations are proper?

Ahh, found a relevant link: https://www.maretron.com/support/kno...cle.php?id=443
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Old 13-06-2018, 07:45   #9
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
unfortunately, this forum doesn't allow high resolution graphics to be uploaded. I had to give my document a lobotomy to attach it.



That said, I tend to agree with it smelling of a network topology/termination issue. The network seems overloaded on one side to me as well. We've looked at the terminators and they *SEEMED* ok, but I've spent the last 10 years with SEATALK HS, not NMEA2000/SIMNET.



That said, I've vented to B&G and the dealer and they have some national support coverage for B&G committed to my boat in the next few days. We'll see.
While I prefer NMEA2000/SIMNET over SEATALK HS (just more robust physically), it can be a bugger to engineer right. Believe it or not, the best people are "old timey" IT guys that used to work on ARCNET or Ethernet over COAX. NMEA2000 has the same physical design as those networks (BUS based network).

As to seeing if you network is overloaded. That is VERY easy to see with your Zues displays. Goto Settings-->Network-->Diagnostics. It will show you a bunch of statistics as well as the current load on your network (mine is 14.2%). Pay attention to the overflows and errors statistics. On my network all of those are at 0. If those numbers are counting up, then there is definately an issue somewhere.

Please let us know once its fixed and what the actual problem was.
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Old 13-06-2018, 07:52   #10
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

If itís only wind thatís a problem then Iím going to bet the backbone simnet plug into the masthead instrument is loose. The terminator is built into the instrument so thereís no separate dongle. Simnet connectors are compression fit (bonehead design) and while there is a metal wire bail on the instrument to secure it, it can pop off. Best to add a wire tie to it as insurance.
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Old 13-06-2018, 08:14   #11
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
If itís only wind thatís a problem then Iím going to bet the backbone simnet plug into the masthead instrument is loose. The terminator is built into the instrument so thereís no separate dongle. Simnet connectors are compression fit (bonehead design) and while there is a metal wire bail on the instrument to secure it, it can pop off. Best to add a wire tie to it as insurance.
The OP said he tried a second masthead sensor and cable at deck level. Didn't solve the problem.
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Old 13-06-2018, 08:16   #12
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

We have similar system 2 Zeus’s 2 chartplotters 4 g radar vhf radio with ais forward sonar scan all B& G never had any problem once system was installed correctly and I mean correctly you need someone who knows B&G products and no they arnt simple plug and play like a lot of installers presume
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Old 13-06-2018, 10:08   #13
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

This is a very simple response, but I had a problem with my B&G system about two years ago. It consists of a Zeus 9", three Tritons, a combo speed transducer, autopilot, and wind sensor. All NMEA 2000.

I came to the boat and the entire system would not work, except as I recall for the chartplotter. Everything else was dark or inaccessible on the network.

In my troubleshooting, I disconnected the network cable going to the transducers and the masthead. Everything else came to life. More troubleshooting indicated that it was the masthead which had an electrical problem that was essentially a short, and the problem was known to B&G. They swapped out the masthead and everything was fine thereafter.

I was surprised by one other issue: the network cable didn't seem to HAVE to be terminated because the problem went away on the network by simply disconnecting the defective sensors, with no termination. So, diagnosing the problem on the N2K network is pretty simple.

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Old 13-06-2018, 11:50   #14
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

If you did a "auto select" and did not find the N2k wind sensor, you probably have to uncheck the option in settings-network-sources
apparent wind. Check if you have two wiind source options, H5000 and 608 wind sensor. If so, you can choose 608 or something. Still on the same page enter Advenced, maybe there. (I can not remember well, I'm pulling forom my memory).
if you can not disable wind search for the H5000 (which is a priority), you must connect to the H5000 via ethernet. It can be via network cable (there is a network connector RJ45 on the H5000).
On a PC after have the connection, type in the address bar: 192.168.0.2. This should open a page that you can do everything on the H5000.
See where the sources are and uncheck the H5000 wind sensor.
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Old 13-06-2018, 12:52   #15
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Re: B&G Wind Instrument problem

I have a zeus and triton display with 508 wind sensor. I haven't installed the speed sensor yet and need to use COG, SOG from GPS to compute true wind. setting those options on the Zeus didn't change the values, I needed to set the options on the Triton to get the correct TWS and TWA calculations.
Perhaps you need a Triton display for the 508 wind sensor to work correctly.
The mast head unit is self terminating, allowing it to occupy one end of the backbone.
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