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Old 11-12-2008, 16:06   #1
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Anybody have this Furuno NavNet 3D Problem

We recently intalled a complete Furuno NavNet 3D package on our new 44' sailboat - 8" MFD at the helm, 12" MFD at the nav station, 2 Kw radar, autopilot and three sailing instruments. As NavNet 3D is a new product from Furuno, we expected some problems and we have had some (software and installation) but the dealer has managed to fix them all except this one:

When switching the COG or Heading display between magnetic and true, the bearing or course number does not change - i.e. the system is working as if the variation were zero degrees. Variation in our part of the world is 21 degrees east. The error is visible and consistent on all displays and the autopilot. Perhaps it is a problem with the electronic chart data as variation would presumably come from this source.

Any suggestions (beyond the one we have already taken of holding back the final payment to the dealer)?

Thanks.
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Old 11-12-2008, 16:39   #2
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Heres the link for Furunos online help. Theyve answered questions for me before and can refer technicians to come to you if necessary. Also have faq section that has answers to common questions. If you have a heading sensor in system turn off the automatic deviation compensation feature, It is buggy and can mess with settings.

Ask Furuno
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Old 11-12-2008, 17:21   #3
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If I'm not mistaken, the variation will come from the GPS. This doesn't answer your question, but it might provide a clue. I've got a similar NN3D setup on my bench and tonight I will see if I can duplicate this problem.
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Old 11-12-2008, 17:47   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the variation will come from the GPS. This doesn't answer your question, but it might provide a clue. I've got a similar NN3D setup on my bench and tonight I will see if I can duplicate this problem.
Yes I can confirm that. The GPS will give this info in field #10 of the NMEA "RMC" sentence, after the date. The value is to one tenth of a degree. Ask your dealer to check your Furuno equipment is using this data.

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Old 11-12-2008, 23:59   #5
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I just checked this with my NN3D setup: 8" and 12" MFDs, PG500-R fluxgate compass, and GPS320B gps receiver (I've also got the 4KW radar, but that is on the boat about to be installed).

My heading and COG are displayed properly, in either magnetic or true north mode. The local mag variation is definitely factored in.

I did update the system software recently, to version 1.11 -- the old software did not properly calculate local time because the GPS was also being told to do the time zone correction as well. I don't know if the true/magnetic bug has anything to do with the software version.

Here is a link to the Furuno software update page: http://www.furunousa.com/Furuno/Rooms/DisplayPages/LayoutInitial?Container=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[BDBC29091D464C4A8F2137F97CE5E167]]&Product=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[7850D71C3D87514AB3C1ECAD33282D31]]&Tab=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[8AB999144F740C45B632919F828B17E6]]
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Old 12-12-2008, 00:10   #6
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Thank you all for the detailed suggestions. Will keep you posted.
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Old 12-12-2008, 17:55   #7
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I have been playing around with the electronics a little more and by trial and error (my usual way of debugging computers), have discovered that the variance disappearing is related to whether the MFD12 is powered up before or after I power up the (Furuno) sailing instruments.

The boat is equipped with two Furuno FI-50 MULTI displays and one FI-50 WIND.

If I power up the FI-50's prior to powering up the MFD12, then the problem occurs (true degrees = magnetic). If powered up in the other sequence, everything works fine. I tried this several times then relayed it to the dealer who advised that they will talk to Furuno about it. In the meantime, I will use this as a workaround although it does lessen one's confidence in the nav system.
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Old 12-12-2008, 19:14   #8
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What are you using for GPS and how is it connected? I'm curious. I haven't yet hooked my B&G instruments to the NN3D system and I hope to avoid a conflict between my B&G fluxgate and my Furuno one. I doubt that this will cause the same problem that you are seeing, but since this is all software you never know!
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Old 13-12-2008, 13:40   #9
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Paul: We have a Furuno GPS, not sure how they connected it but am sure that I will learn more about the details of the installation before too long.
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Old 21-12-2008, 09:25   #10
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Namoian,
We are getting set to buy a new plotter/radar setup. NavNet3D is our front runner. What are your general impressions of the performance of the product (glitches notwithstanding)?
Thanks,
Rocky
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Old 21-12-2008, 11:47   #11
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Rocky,

I'm in your pre-purchase position too but my early leader (Furuno) might be being passed by Garmin.

I've never had a Garmin unit (long user of both Furuno and Raymarine) but I was really impressed by the Garmin touch screen unit. I though it was a gimmick but it seems quicker and easier to use than Furuno. I've always found the Furunos a little too complicated - too many knobs, buttons, modes and chart options. NavNet3D seems to go even farther. I spent an hour at the Garmin boat show booth (the Garmin guys were pretty tired of me) doing every activity I could think of without help or a manual.

Furuno's always been consdiered the leader on radar and their new units are supposed to be wonderful but now that Gramins has a new 24" HD unit maybe the gap is narrowed? A lot of the "wow" reports of the new Furno radar was comparing their 24" units to 18" HD or non HD units from others.

I have bought Furuno in the past because "that's what the commercial fishermen use" but I have a flyer friend who points out that Garmin "is what the pilots use".

I've no relation with either Garmin or Furuno and the above is just a boat show experience. Anyone have any comments on the above observations - maybe even based on actual use?

Carl
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Old 21-12-2008, 11:57   #12
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I am in the middle of a Navnet3D install, but have played with the gear on my bench. I can't compare to the Garmin, but the NN3D chartplotter seems more intuitive and easy to use than my old Raymarine chartplotter. It certainly has more features, but these seem well integrated and overall it is all quite usable. Of course bench testing is not the same as using it under way, but so far so good.

By the way, I have decided to install the NN3D MFD8 chartplotter at the helm, instead of the MFD12 -- so I now have a fresh-out-of-the-box MFD12 unit for sale at a very good price. Here is my ad: F.S. Furuno NN3D Chartplotter, Raymarine Plotter & Radar
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Old 21-12-2008, 17:27   #13
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Paul,
I'm interested in buying your NN3D MFD plotter. Will send message.
Rocky
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Old 22-12-2008, 01:57   #14
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Rocky,
Iím afraid that we did not do too much comparison shopping before buying the Furuno gear so canít really comment on other products such as Garmin and Raymarine. I asked the opinion of others in the marina and the boat builder which manufacturer had the most reliable equipment and Furuno was most often given as the answer. Also read online forums such as this.
My original thinking had been to use an industrial strength notebook loaded with navigation software linked to a GPS source. As a result we do have Costal Navigator running on a Panasonic Toughbook, however our desire to have radar (itís foggy up here) lead us into the land of integrated systems. Costal Navigator seems to be superior in functionality to the proprietary Furuno MFDís however we like the comfort of the Furuno MFD at the helm and once you have one there, it seems natural to have one at the nav station as well. Perhaps the most interesting observation with the Furuno experience was how the technicians seemed absolutely convinced that their equipment was delivering the right courses on sea trials, dismissing the old fashioned magnetic compass and paper chart information. Even drawing bearings on the charts and showing it to them did little to convince them that we were travelling 20 degrees off course. I think this underlines the need to utilize multiple sources of input. With the caveat that one canít rely completely on this stuff, I believe that the Furuno is good quality and will work well for us and have not had too much difficulty figuring out the controls (I think you become an expert user of whichever system you have). Hope this helps.
Ian
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Old 22-12-2008, 11:15   #15
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Ian,
Thanks for your insights. There's no doubt that multiple types of navigation aids are impotant in terms of insurance in the event of the failure of one. Paper charts seem to me to remain the gold standard, and in fact, I think that proprietary electronic systems use data from the paper and present it in their own format.
I've decided to take the plunge with the NN3D system. What appealed to me was what reviewers said about the technology in the system, which seems to represent a substantial step forward in navigation systems. As with any new system, I anticipate some bugs.
My readings on the Raymarine systems suggest a significant level of customer dissatisfaction, particularly concerning technical support. I do have Raymarine ST60 wind, speed and depth instruments, which have performed well.
Furuno seems to have the edge in radar, and I will be adding that to my system. I have not heard significant complaints regarding Furuno technical support.
As my experience develops, I'll update the forum on my impressions.
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