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Old 16-10-2017, 17:55   #46
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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While I agree with your sentiment, I must ask ..... Battery bank hours ????
I wonder how many boat owners have a clue about what you are talking about .... I certainly don't.
I'm sure meant battery bank amp hours?
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Old 16-10-2017, 19:04   #47
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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Bottom line- in general, the work/reward ratio for selling cheap boats is quite poor. Folks who are looking for red-carpet service when buying an old, lower end of the market boat would do well to remember that. You might be the 23rd person that the broker has had a huge list of questions from, and still no sale. It makes a small sale very costly indeed in terms of time for the broker.
Nicely said TJ. I agree. I realize itís not worth your effort. Thatís what I wrote earlier. As a small business operator I fully understand. It not a slam Ö itís simply reality.

The only thing Iíd suggest, as a potential buyer, is for you to refuse to take on these kinds of clients. Just say no. You are better of not wasting your time with them. And we, the buyers, are better off not dealing with a broker who cannot afford to put the time into the project that I, the possible buyer, needs.

While $5k (to use your example) is not a lot of money for you, it is for people like me. Since I canít afford all the top-notch 3rd party surveyors and other professionals to protect my fortune, I have to do it all myself. And when a broker inserts themselves, I am forced to bring all my queries through them. But since they canít afford to respond fully, we are all left less than satisfied.

Like I said earlier, at the lower end, in general both buyers and sellers are better served without a broker in the middle.
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Old 16-10-2017, 19:19   #48
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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Nicely said TJ. I agree. I realize itís not worth your effort. Thatís what I wrote earlier. As a small business operator I fully understand. It not a slam Ö itís simply reality.

The only thing Iíd suggest, as a potential buyer, is for you to refuse to take on these kinds of clients. Just say no. You are better of not wasting your time with them. And we, the buyers, are better off not dealing with a broker who cannot afford to put the time into the project that I, the possible buyer, needs.

While $5k (to use your example) is not a lot of money for you, it is for people like me. Since I canít afford all the top-notch 3rd party surveyors and other professionals to protect my fortune, I have to do it all myself. And when a broker inserts themselves, I am forced to bring all my queries through them. But since they canít afford to respond fully, we are all left less than satisfied.

Like I said earlier, at the lower end, in general both buyers and sellers are better served without a broker in the middle.
Hi Mike, I think that you're right on cheap boats being better off without a broker. We did typically turn down really low-value boats, for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, we wanted the big listings. When the guy wanting to list his $800,000 motoryacht looks at your inventory, he doesn't want to see a bunch of $7500 boats. It was our mission to serve the more lucrative clientele. This is not snobbery-it's business.

The most instructive part of my story, I think, is that this little $5,000 boat, listed as a favor, got as many inquires as the other 49 listings combined!

Further, the nature of the inquiries were of a much more time-consuming nature. You wouldn't believe some of the things we were asked to do.

As you may or may not know, it's customary in the yacht sales world for a prospective buyer to put down a 10% deposit into escrow-earnest money. Guess how earnest all these guys were. In 2 years that thing was on my website, not a single 'Buyer' ever was serious enough to make a (refundable) deposit.

That's right- in 2 years nobody ponied up the 5k (it could have been bought for 2k), but if I had allowed it, we would have had literally hundreds of hours chasing down questions from non-buyers.

This was dreamers and tire kickers at their worst. I'm sure that every broker out there has a similar story. It's easy to understand why some legitimate buyers with ready cash get snubbed. When you've had 600 emails about a boat, #601 just might be your buyer, but you're so sick of the whole thing, you end up losing him. In the end, it doesn't matter much anyway.

As you said-it's just business. I feel for the buyer at the lower end of the market, everyone is entitled to decent service. But, there are just SO many people who will happily waste a broker's time who have no intention of buying, this kind of collateral damage is unavoidable.
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Old 16-10-2017, 19:46   #49
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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... The most instructive part of my story, I think, is that this little $5,000 boat, listed as a favor, got as many inquires as the other 49 listings combined!

Further, the nature of the inquiries were of a much more time-consuming nature. You wouldn't believe some of the things we were asked to do.

As you may or may not know, it's customary in the yacht sales world for a prospective buyer to put down a 10% deposit into escrow-earnest money. Guess how earnest all these guys were. In 2 years that thing was on my website, not a single 'Buyer' ever was serious enough to make a (refundable) deposit.
Again, I fully agree. And having sold at the low end I can feel your pain with regard to the tire-kicker crowd. But at least as the owner/seller I can afford to invest the time to respond, even to the apparent time-wasters. As a professional who is trying to keep a roof over your head and food on the table, you cannot ó at least not without going way beyond the call of duty and possibly jeopardizing other parts of your business.

Part of the reason low-end buyers are more difficult to service is b/c theyíre (weíre) forced to do all the work ourselves, without much experience or resources. Itís similar to someone who, through lack of resources, is forced to act as their own lawyer. We donít know the system, donít know the process, donít have access to professional resources, but the only way forward is through your office. No surprise you feel the brunt of this. What else are we to do?

I suspect part of the problem is that brokers have a lock on the most valuable advertising tool: Yachtworld. In Canada in the real estate world, brokers refused to allow non-broker listing on the online search tool. A law suit finally cracked that nut.

If tools like Yachtworld were opened to everyone who wants to sell their boat, I suspect weíd see a lot fewer low-end sellers seeking brokers. I think this would be good for sellers and buyers at the low end, and would likely reduce the number of complaints levelled against brokers.
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Old 16-10-2017, 20:21   #50
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

How about reframing this conversation, any time I have a bad experience I ask myself what I did wrong, not what someone else did wrong.

I refuse to be a victim, it’s like giving control of my life away to someone else.

IMHO the US has become obsessed with consumer rights, if some service is not perfect it somehow becomes a personal insult.

So at the consumer interface there are now a lot of entitled ass....s.

My only experience selling a boat in the US was stellar, the boat listed on a Friday and I had a deposit for my asking price by Sunday!

But I chose the broker, took most of the pics for her, hauled the boat right outside her office window and detailed it myself.

There is a problem with the US brokerage model, we don’t have buyers brokers here in Oz, and sellers generally don’t list boats at a distance, so we are dealing with someone who has the details and is making enough on the sale to invest some time.

I have used a lot of brokers here over the last 50 years and would be happy to use any of them again.
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Old 16-10-2017, 21:17   #51
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

I don't believe being in a victim either. I'm currently in OZ and the broker is in the states. So even when I called him, he sounded like he was just waking up, which he wasn't it was 3pm his time.. He sounded lazy and just stated, did you read the advert? Yes, and it was shockingly incomplete with general information and no details.

Someone mentioned that I should complain to the brokerage. I find out that this clown is the president of the brokerage..LOL It really sucks that I and the seller may lose out on the deal because of this moron of a broker. I wish I could deal with the seller directly!!

Another person was stating that they may not have all of the information. Perhaps it's just my engineering background but if it was my job to list a boat, I would do my own personal unofficial survey. Keep it all handy on a data sheet and if someone asked about an item, I would quickly reference my data-sheet, etc.. I tend to be pretty organized and proactive. Again, this is their job, not asking them to do anything above and beyond or outside of their scope of duties.

Like I said before, I have met some brokers that were amazing and very detailed.. They had 150+ photos of everything, an extremely detailed list of their observations, etc.. I nearly bought the boat sight unseen, but I'm not that crazy!!

But I love how everyone has added their own stories and experiences as well as recommended brokers, etc.. Great information to go back to, thanks!!!!
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Old 16-10-2017, 21:23   #52
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

In the US, it is not uncommon for a broker to list a boat they have not seen ...
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Old 16-10-2017, 21:32   #53
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

Sunjin would probably know of Mr Alfred Gundry lll, an Annapolis area Yacht Broker. He deals in yachts in the 6 figures and beyond, but always makes time to speak to anyone in the market looking for a boat. Heck, we had a nice chat recently while we were both in the Boatyard Grill (Annapolis) the other day having lunch. Extremely Professional Broker, who's been in the business for over 35 years. If you have the kind of money for the price level of the boats he sells you'd be hard pressed to find a more amicable person to do business with.

Alfred Gundry lll
Interyacht Brokerage
7076 Bembe Beach Road
Annapolis, MD 21403
410-280-6100 office


Also, If you ever find yourself interested in a Ranger Tug, I spent some worthwhile time with Mr Don Finlay, the Company Sales Manager, who really listens to a customer and will give you as much of his time as he can showing you his line of boats. A person I'd feel comfortable buying a 6 figure boat from.

Don Finlay
Ranger Tugs
25802 Pacific Hwy S
Kent, WA 98032
253-839-5213
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Old 16-10-2017, 21:44   #54
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

Here is an example of an Aussie broker doing a good job..

https://youtu.be/1BiVgBomS44
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Old 16-10-2017, 21:49   #55
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

TJ & Skipmac ... thanks for your words of encouragement. Yes, she is well maintained and ready for trial sail whenever.
To the would be buyers out there, consider this: I could easily have bought a much larger boat and probably ended up boat poor struggling to moor and maintain it in a half vast manner. Good marina's as most of you know do not come cheap, never mind the never ending maintenance costs. The logic in building my own boat was to own a top quality neat little coastal cruising Cutter, I could easily AFFORD TO KEEP, unlike those who buy much bigger, more expensive boats that they eventually discover is beyond their financial means to maintain. I see many neglected boats in our marina that I wonder how, or even why they continue paying marina fees.
Just this past Sunday, I walked the finger dock where my boat lies tied up and looked at a vessel that is at least a 36 footer. It has never moved since the day I arrived on August 9 of 2015, and probably a lot longer than that for all I know.
The exterior is in terrible filthy condition, the canvas starting to come apart, the furled jib now showing 'feathers' all the way down to the furler due to long time exposure to the natural elements. Fungus and moss growing on the woodwork etc. One wonders WHY the owner would not remove the sails and store them below? ... I shudder to think what the interior is like. Who knows, maybe there's a body in there ... well, you never know do you?
My point being, a whole family could have enjoyed summer cruising this past few years, but it is being left to slowly decay ... it will take more than the value of the boat to return her to a reasonable sailing condition. I'm sure there must be a story there.
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Old 16-10-2017, 22:31   #56
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

No, you are not the only one.
In our experience, when trying to buy a 50ft sailboat, it was the majority of them. Unfortunately we also discovered that a number of owners were dishonest also.
One broker, and the owner, even told us "everyone lies in this industry" in order to justify their own petty, pointless lie that the boat had not had the hull cleaned, even though we were all staring at a clean hull that had had 3 inches of thick weed on it a fortnight earlier (LOL). My husbands response was along the lines of "Whatever, Mr broker & Mr Owner - please keep your mouths shut - from now on the boat will answer my questions because it wont lie."

That lie was harmless, but the lies and coverups on a boat that we flew to the other side of the world to buy (after having it surveyed by a "trusted" shipwright), could have put our family's safety at risk had not kind boat-yard workers helped us uncover the cover-up of major damage between hull and keel.
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Old 16-10-2017, 23:29   #57
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
While I agree with your sentiment, I must ask ..... Battery bank hours ????
I wonder how many boat owners have a clue about what you are talking about .... I certainly don't.
Had to read a few more posts before I realized he meant Amp-Hours
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Old 16-10-2017, 23:51   #58
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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In the US, it is not uncommon for a broker to list a boat they have not seen ...
Well the insult to injury is that the boat is currently in a slip at the brokerage!! That's how lazy he is!! And on a different boat a while back, we actually flew half way around the world, with weeks of notice and reminders to the broker, and the boat was great but it didn't start...?!? You would think that he would've checked in advance if not that morning, as we had a mid-afternoon appointment to make sure that things worked, and cleaned? Nope, this genius was late to his own office and nothing was checked or prepped.. I just don't understand how people keep getting paid and rewarded for their utter incompetence and lack of care for their chosen careers. If you are too lazy and don't care, do something else.. Why make us suffer for it..
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Old 16-10-2017, 23:57   #59
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

Boat brokers = used car salesmen.......nothing more.
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Old 17-10-2017, 01:58   #60
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Re: What's the deal with Boat Brokers?

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Well the insult to injury is that the boat is currently in a slip at the brokerage!! That's how lazy he is!! And on a different boat a while back, we actually flew half way around the world, with weeks of notice and reminders to the broker, and the boat was great but it didn't start...?!? You would think that he would've checked in advance if not that morning, as we had a mid-afternoon appointment to make sure that things worked, and cleaned? Nope, this genius was late to his own office and nothing was checked or prepped.. I just don't understand how people keep getting paid and rewarded for their utter incompetence and lack of care for their chosen careers. If you are too lazy and don't care, do something else.. Why make us suffer for it..
Life !! Who knows whats going on in his life ??? Will be cured by death one day though. It's heading our way too. Important to remember and enjoy the moment, there's less and less of them.
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