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Old 23-02-2017, 10:01   #31
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
The mind plays a large part in seasickness: one is more exposed when worried, tired or bored. I also noticed I am much less seasick when I am the skipper because I feel the pressure of responsibility: I am convinced that adrenalin (in the correct dose) is effective against seasickness.

People are sensitive to the direction of the motions: for most people, it's the vertical motion that makes them sick. Most are also sensitive to the frequency. I met a man who was fine when beating upwind but was sick when running with the waves.

Alain
I would agree that the mind & or state of mind has a great deal to do with seasickness. ..for some I could see it being a purely physical thing as in something wrong with the inner ear or the communication between the brain and the ear and those kinds of things I am sure that they happen... my belief might not be the correct one but the mind is very powerful. .people worry about everything under the sun after they get out there..thinking,what did I forget? To late now...& am I safe? The engine or any of a multitude of things to worry about. And I can't help but Wonder if it's people's insecurities that bring it on. Myself I've been lucky enough to where I don't get seasick but I understand the feeling because I got queasy once when everyone else on the fishing boat was sick, that was hard to listen to a group of people chumming! But it was a mental thing,I just said no way,& fought it off by not dwelling on it,get your mind on something else,charts or a book,maybe a movie,whatever.....
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:02   #32
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Oh yeah, it ain't the boat!
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:26   #33
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

I believe weight/ configuration of sailboat is is also major factor. While I seem to be nearly non- affected, my wife is a bit more sensitive. Neither of us has any issue on our heavy Cal 46' (36,000 lbs) except under prolonged worse conditions. Our Cal is a center cockpit (which I favor for cruising/ living aboard, more on this later) which puts cockpit and saloon in minimum 'hobby- horse motion location. Even our sensitive tummy cat soon figured out the most comfortable place to be was under the saloon table/ by the CG keel stepped mast. Having the higher 360 degree sight lines to horizon may be big factor. Center cockpit has many benefits re sea sickness help below. Usually center cockpit have larger/ more viewable saloon ports/ windows. This helps more than just 'lightness' because it may be a significant help in resolving of eye/ inner ear conflict so consider how potential boat windows are positioned.... if you have to 'stand on your toes' to see out or can't see out at the dinette it's not allowing overt/ subconscious resolution of what inter ear is feeling and eye is seeing. Also center cockpit allows you to be higher/ farther from water... easier in cockpit to always sense horizon, and being higher from the water surface lessens the exaggerated 'close water' movement effect of aft cockpit/ steering stations have. Lastly, beyond seasickness, center cockpit divides below space in half which has many at sea/ anchorage advantages. Puts main 'owners cabin all the way aft (much less motion than v-birth. Most v-birth/ saloon cabin hatches must be closed (faces spray) while most/ our aft cabin hatch faces back and can remain cracked/ full open (depending on sea state) to allow MUCH APPRECIATED fresh air circulation even underway. Center cockpit puts engine/ generator, water/ tank mostly in low/ center of the boat adding to low CG. Lastly, center cockpit allow for separation of 'crew' private time from for reading/ quiet,... Back to saloon dinette/ settee, now you have three sleeping/ lounging options based on breeze at anchor/ or sea state underway. Our Cal 46 is a ketch which allows just the mizzen up & tight to act as 'flopper-stopper' at anchor or going down wind.
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:42   #34
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

There are a lot of variables that affect mal-de-mer, not just LOA.

The sea state and your point of sail are paramount. Obviously, if the boat is pitching and rolling, its more likely to get sick, and more likely under engine.

I find staying aboard a couple nights, even at anchor or floating at a dock, takes the edge off.

Its all about the inner ear...so if there's lots of noise, you might feel better, or not sick at all.

As other posters have pointed out, there has been much written about sea sickness. I have had many guests who suffer from the fear of sea sickness, and spend all their effort and energy while aboard on thinking about if they are sick...that is a sure fire way to make yourself sick.

And I have found that smaller boats have a more predictable motion, and hence less sickness. You rarely see anyone complain of motion sickness on a very small sailboat like a Laser or Hobiecat.

I'm sure you will continue your research, but be aware that thinking about being seasick will most likely end up with "eating backwards" as you so delightfully said.
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:43   #35
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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Yes, of course a larger boat is more comfortable. Not just sheer size but also the mass of the boat. Old fashioned heavy boats are more comfortable than light fast ones.

There are also big differences between monos and cats. Cat, being unballasted, has a faster, more "twitchy": motion than a mono, especially if you are really comparing like-for-like (i.e. 40 foot cat with 50 foot mono). This twitchy motion makes some people seasick very quickly. On the other hand, the heeling of a mono makes other people sick as hell -- because it can contribute to the spatial disorientation which is the root cause of seasickness. Only time my Father was ever seasick was racing a catamaran to Cuba in the '90's -- he said he thought he was going to die. But he was coming from decades of acclimatization to monos.



I would not however expect the difference between 40 foot and 50 foot monos of similar type to be extremely dramatic. What you experienced is probably more a matter of different sea conditions. You can certainly get seasick on a 50, indeed on a 60 or even a 90 foot boat. Just somewhat less.

Seasickness is a bane to those who suffer from it. Most sailors who suffer from it are able to overcome it over time and with experience -- as the body starts to "understand" the motion of the boat.
Spatial disorientation! Read up on this. Multiple factors contribute, but there are ways to fight it. Like has been mentioned, getting out to see what you are actually doing in reference to the horizon helps.

Even in old text references on large sailing ships, greenhorns who got sick on long passages eventually got used to it. Swinging on the wide arc at the top of the masts didn't necessarily help though.

It seems like having a task to accomplish that involves physical movement on the deck (even just taking the tiller) is one of the things that helps you out when you feel queasy. Especially in foul weather. Get what you need to be comfortable on deck, and ride it out.
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:53   #36
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Quote: "... "generally speaking, larger boats are more stable than smaller ones." is part of what makes me wonder, wether a 50 would be the better choice for us."

From "The fisherman's prayer: "Oh lord - They ocean is so great, my boat is so small..."

There is NO size of vessel that will assure you of never getting mal-de-mer. I dare say that some men aboard Nimitz occasionally call for Ralph!

Seasickness is all in your head. For two reasons: One is that (as Ann sez) motion of different kinds makes different people "motion sick" due to the inner ear's mechanism that senses the body's orientation (balance) sending signals to the brain that are inconsistent with the signals sent to the brain by the eyes. The brain gets confused and unhappy, and lets you know it by making you vomit.

However much you are on the water, you are always aware that, being in a cockleshell on a huge ocean, you are not in your natural habitat, and you are aware that the associated dangers are much greater than those associated with the land and of a different, largely unknown kind - i.e. you are anxious despite your choosing to deny it. Your atavistic head is not fooled!

So just accept it. If you do any time at sea, if you do any worthwhile cruising, you WILL be seasick from time to time. We all are! Struggling to avoid it is futile, and if you are already green around the gills and you try to fight it, you will only make it worse. The ONLY thing to do, if you are serious about seafaring, is to discipline yourself to continue to work efficiently and effectively while seasick. For all of us there comes a time when continuing to work becomes impossible. When that point comes it is time to accept that a well-found ship - even a thirty-footer - can take better care of you than you can of her :-)!

An practical illustration: MyBeloved hadn't ever set foot in ANY kinda boat till she was of retirement age. We were in TrentePieds (30 Ft mono) motoring into a headwind at the upper end of sea-state 2. Nothing to write home about. She and the ship's cat were both flat on their bellies with their nails/claws dug into the cabin sole. Making wretching noises. Being ever solicitous, I went for shelter, and there asked them both if they wanted to quit. "Only for now" was the answer.

So when she was able to eat again I taught MyBeloved this: As for the physical causes of mal-de-mer, keep you upper body ever VERTICAL, by shifting your weight from foot to foot so the signals from ear and from eye remain consistent. As for the psychological causes, keep BUSY in order to keep the anxiety down. Give your brain something other than anxiety to play with. The corollary of this is that the more you trust your ship - perhaps through long experience with her - the less often you will get sick.

Now MyBeloved "moves with the ship" (the remedy for "motion sickness"), and she gets on the helm, which keeps her busy (the remedy for anxiety), and she's happy. Her propensity for seasickness is now less than mine, but then - she knows less about seafaring, i.e. she doesn't know enuff to know when it's time to worry.

Worrying is MY department, so I get seasick - and accept it :-)!

TrentePieds
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:00   #37
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "... "generally speaking, larger boats are more stable than smaller ones." is part of what makes me wonder, wether a 50 would be the better choice for us."

From "The fisherman's prayer: "Oh lord - They ocean is so great, my boat is so small..."

There is NO size of vessel that will assure you of never getting mal-de-mer. I dare say that some men aboard Nimitz occasionally call for Ralph!

Seasickness is all in your head. For two reasons: One is that (as Ann sez) motion of different kinds makes different people "motion sick" due to the inner ear's mechanism that senses the body's orientation (balance) sending signals to the brain that are inconsistent with the signals sent to the brain by the eyes. The brain gets confused and unhappy, and lets you know it by making you vomit.

However much you are on the water, you are always aware that, being in a cockleshell on a huge ocean, you are not in your natural habitat, and you are aware that the associated dangers are much greater than those associated with the land and of a different, largely unknown kind - i.e. you are anxious despite your choosing to deny it. Your atavistic head is not fooled!

So just accept it. If you do any time at sea, if you do any worthwhile cruising, you WILL be seasick from time to time. We all are! Struggling to avoid it is futile, and if you are already green around the gills and you try to fight it, you will only make it worse. The ONLY thing to do, if you are serious about seafaring, is to discipline yourself to continue to work efficiently and effectively while seasick. For all of us there comes a time when continuing to work becomes impossible. When that point comes it is time to accept that a well-found ship - even a thirty-footer - can take better care of you than you can of her :-)!

An practical illustration: MyBeloved hadn't ever set foot in ANY kinda boat till she was of retirement age. We were in TrentePieds (30 Ft mono) motoring into a headwind at the upper end of sea-state 2. Nothing to write home about. She and the ship's cat were both flat on their bellies with their nails/claws dug into the cabin sole. Making wretching noises. Being ever solicitous, I went for shelter, and there asked them both if they wanted to quit. "Only for now" was the answer.

So when she was able to eat again I taught MyBeloved this: As for the physical causes of mal-de-mer, keep you upper body ever VERTICAL, by shifting your weight from foot to foot so the signals from ear and from eye remain consistent. As for the psychological causes, keep BUSY in order to keep the anxiety down. Give your brain something other than anxiety to play with. The corollary of this is that the more you trust your ship - perhaps through long experience with her - the less often you will get sick.

Now MyBeloved "moves with the ship" (the remedy for "motion sickness"), and she gets on the helm, which keeps her busy (the remedy for anxiety), and she's happy. Her propensity for seasickness is now less than mine, but then - she knows less about seafaring, i.e. she doesn't know enuff to know when it's time to worry.

Worrying is MY department, so I get seasick - and accept it :-)!

TrentePieds
Eloquently put.
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:00   #38
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

I hardly ever get seriously seasick on light racing boats.

But I do get somewhat iffy on large ferries or slow heavy sailing boats.

This much said, I only get affected over the first couple of days. Within a week out at sea nothing gets me anymore. I think the same applies to huge proportion of the population.

If you sail enough, you never get seasick (or never sail ... ;-))

Cheers,
b.
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:20   #39
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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....
TrentePieds
Well said. That sounds about right and puts together several important things.

In fact, the more I think and read about it, the more I come to the conclusion that (apart from the actual physical properties of the First 50 we had) it was most likely also the psychological thing that I simply "liked the First 50" much more. While the Bavaria was in various ways not really making me happy.

Considering this, it seems in deed more important to look for a boat that I/we really like and can actually love and enjoy, and not just chartering a boat for chartering a boat. The psychological part apparently is too important to be neglected. And that includes also the "how much do I actually like my vessel", which then in turn relates to confidence, general well being and hence then indirectly also to seasickness.
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:23   #40
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I hardly ever get seriously seasick on light racing boats.

But I do get somewhat iffy on large ferries or slow heavy sailing boats.

This much said, I only get affected over the first couple of days. Within a week out at sea nothing gets me anymore. I think the same applies to huge proportion of the population.

If you sail enough, you never get seasick (or never sail ... ;-))

Cheers,
b.
Ships doctor told me 2-3 days max, just stay hydrated until you get through...then after 7-8 weeks at see, you get sick on land, can't stand right, and need "rocked" to sleep.
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:29   #41
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

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Ships doctor told me 2-3 days max, just stay hydrated until you get through...then after 7-8 weeks at see, you get sick on land, can't stand right, and need "rocked" to sleep.
Well, even after our last 3-week holiday on water, though I was not getting sick when being back on land again, but it was somewhat a weird feeling while sleeping/falling asleep. There was something missing during a first days again on the hard. We both agreed quickly that the little movements at night somehow had a relaxing effect on us. And that was just after 3 weeks.

Perhaps I should get a Waterbed again, loved it.

Btw: Anyone ever put one of these in a boat??? (just wondering )
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:34   #42
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Welcome sailingpzas,

I second Steadyhand's congratulations on a well written and informative backstory to your post.

There's some interesting info covering the medical side (especially in the comments section) here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2017/01...ess-revisited/

As Sir Peter Blake used to say “Everyone gets seasick. If you haven’t, then you didn’t go out in a small enough boat, in a big enough sea”!
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Old 23-02-2017, 12:41   #43
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Everyone is putting their two cents in so I will as well. I do not think the size of boat makes a difference. I was VERY seasick on a 80 foot monohull off Grenada. Last summer I got sick once on Lake Ontario on my own 40 foot boat when I was living on the boat all summer. It was a rough day under full sail and big waves. What I find is I usually need a couple days of sleeping on the boat before casting off. Somehow that helps the inner ear balance. More important is consider what you are eating and drinking for a couple days before departure. Keep it simple and lots of water. Last summer on my boat, it was 4 cups of strong coffee before departure that got me. While I do not like to take drugs, I am the skipper, so what I find helps is eat or drink anything rich in ginger. I will take ginger pills for 4-5 days before casting off and for a couple days into the passage. I will be doing 2000 NM next month and that is the plan.
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Old 23-02-2017, 13:23   #44
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Pharmacist here, so have to chime in...did a quick look at the medical literature on motion sickness over the last 3-4 yrs and found:
- motion sickness (MS) much more than N/V. also fatigue, headache, drowsiness, reduced cognitive performance
- blind individuals also susceptible to MS
- the most nauseogenic vertical oscillation (0.2Hz) is consistent with camel riding
- active movement (driver of a car) helps to adapt to sensory rearrangement and less prone to MS in contrast to passengers
- increase risk of MS: anxiety, history of MS
- reduce risk of MS: incremental exposure, antihistamines (eg, diphenhydramine), promethazine (prescription), scopolamine(prescription) (scop is best with stimulant( eg Dexedrine, amphetamine, ephedrine)), anti-emetics used in cancer therapy (eg granisetron, ondansetron, etc -prescription), ginger - no data to demonstrate efficacy. Interestingly vitamin C, 2 grams 1 hr before reduced MS in subjects less than 27yo.
Science still evolving around MS and no good remedies.
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Old 23-02-2017, 14:03   #45
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Re: Seasickness related to boat size or something else…?

Never been SS. Neither has.been my child who grew up on boats. She'll sleep below in worst conditions so long as the motor is running. She'll play in the fwd cabin and watch movies and eat (keep telling her no eating in our bed).

As said sailor On carriers would get SS on return to sea.

It's all about change. Humans hate change. In the case of my kid there is no change because sailing means small craft warnings. Normal is as normal does.
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