Medical Insurance & Costs

[OutOfControl]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Thanks for clarifying that.

It is a bit messy, but as there are now 15 million people that previously were without US health insurance that are now insured...

Dennis, do you have a reference for this number?

[zboss]

My wife and I would have to pay $15K a year to get the same coverage I now pay $2500 a year for. The rest of a employer benefit that the government is taking away from me, maybe next they will pass ObamaSalary.

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by OutOfControl

Dennis, do you have a reference for this number?

ObamaCare Enrollment Numbers

[OutOfControl]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

ObamaCare Enrollment Numbers

From your link;

Could All These Estimates Statistics Be High?
Opponents of the law clam a wide variety of numbers for enrollments. First you have to remember when we say enrollments under the ACA we mean all insurance types, not just the 8 million through the marketplace. If you take the 4.7 million who lost their plans and subtract that from the 8 million who got plans on the marketplace, and then subtract those who may not pay you get a number more like 4 million. Of course the 4.7 million who lost plans got insurance through more places than just the marketplace. The real numbers when taking all data into account truly seems to be closer to our 15 million estimate which as you can read below is actually pretty conservative.

Seems like the author is fudging some real numbers with predictions to arrive at his "15 million estimate". Even the HHS.gov web-site cannot seem to come up with a realistic number of previously uninsured now covered by the ACA.

Remember a lot of enrollees were already eligible for health care benefits through their employer but chose not to participate. The law now requires them to enroll or face a penalty. Throw in a million young adults who are now covered under their parents plan and another million or so low income enrollees who qualify for expanded Medicaid coverage and you get a little closer to the authors estimate.

The main problem seems to be the lower than anticipated number of "paying enrollees" as opposed to the Medicaid, CHIPs and early Medicare enrollments which has forced the HHS to extend their estimates for full enrollment ramp up from 3 years to 5 years.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by zboss

The rest of a employer benefit that the government is taking away from me,.

I hesitate to post this and just ask for slight indulgence from the rest of you.

I'm not going to argue that much to my chagrin many employees have lost benefits, but as a businessman, I'm tired of the cop out that has become so convenient to employers. I'm not arguing against what you said, but I am arguing against what your employer is telling you. Prior to my retirement I worked for a company employing about 4,000 people in the US and never during my 20+ years there were benefits decreased or taken away. My wife and I own a business employing nearly 2,000 people today and their benefits are great. I'd also like to say that we pay no one the Florida minimum wage of $7.93 per hour. (US minimum currently $7.25 per hour, as it has been since 2009, for our non-US brethren).

The government has never under any administration forced employers to take away benefits or otherwise treat employees poorly. Businesses choose to do so. There are a few major employers in retail and even convenience stores who provide benefits to all full time employees and pay everyone above minimum wage.

It's just a pet peeve of mine to see businessmen who blame everything on someone else, the government, the competitor, the economy, even the weather as the employees suffer. Then they parachute away with a $10-15 million severance.

I don't want to argue politics of the health care act or this or any administration, just stating that employers have long used the "government" and other excuses for their own moves.

Now, factually, health care (forget who is paying for it for a moment) is more expensive in the US than elsewhere. And again not wanting to get into a discussion of why. All that matters to us as cruisers is knowing that cost and affordability or the fact we can't afford it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by blackcatscooter

...... We don't have any of the pre-existing conditions that aren't covered, so we're fine with this policy.

After this first year, we are leaving the country and will be changing to an international policy through IMG that excludes the U.S. and Canada for about $3700/year premium, with a $10000/person deductible and they pay 100% after that for almost everything else.
..

When thinking about the international policies, be careful about pre-existing conditions. What you think a pre-existing condition might be is probably far from what the carriers definition is. In the IMG plan, get breast or prostate cancer in the first 6-months and no coverage. Also here's there pretty broad definition of pre-existing conditions. Lots of wiggly room to avoid paying:

Any Injury, Illness, sickness, disease, or other physical, medical, Mental or Nervous Disorder, condition
or ailment that, with reasonable medical certainty, existed at the time of Application or at any time during the three years prior to
the Effective Date of this insurance, whether or not previously manifested, symptomatic or known, diagnosed, Treated, or
disclosed to the Company prior to the Effective Date, and including any and all subsequent, chronic or recurring complications or
consequences related thereto or resulting or arising therefrom.

Some of the other international carriers definitions are even worse.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Paul L

When thinking about the international policies, be careful about pre-existing conditions. What you think a pre-existing condition might be is probably far from what the carriers definition is. In the IMG plan, get breast or prostate cancer in the first 6-months and no coverage. Also here's there pretty broad definition of pre-existing conditions. Lots of wiggly room to avoid paying:
Some of the other international carriers definitions are even worse.

Excellent point. Fortunately US law required US policies to change. Previously under the type clause you mention there were some extreme cases and denials. As ridiculous as this sounds, I'll give you one I knew of. Man has been on policy 14 months, has a colonoscopy. A cancerous tumor is removed. Some chemotherapy. All coverage denied. Reason given was that it takes the tumor over five years to become cancerous and if he'd had a colonoscopy even as much as 3-5 years earlier they would have seen a tumor forming and perhaps even removed it during the colonoscopy or, if not, had it surgically removed then. Ultimately the insurer lost the case and the man's estate won a substantial award. But during his lifetime all he saw was a huge financial hardship on his family.

I'll repeat. Read every word of every insurance policy or have an expert you trust who isn't the seller do so for you or both.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by BandB

I hesitate to post this and just ask for slight indulgence from the rest of you.

I'm not going to argue that much to my chagrin many employees have lost benefits, but as a businessman, I'm tired of the cop out that has become so convenient to employers. I'm not arguing against what you said, but I am arguing against what your employer is telling you.

I hear what you are saying but here my side now. When the government gives corporate welfare to a business that does not need it (and we certainly do not need it) the government has given away my benefit of salary arbitration because why compete for good talent when you don't have to?

[sailorboy1]

Rants killed the thread again

There seems to be many cruisers here that should have real life answers


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[chuckr]

We are Americans and been out of the USA for the 5 years or so and I am 69 and admiral is 67. We do not carry any insurance. We get our medical locally and have good results. The admiral had hand surgery in Colombia by a hand surgeon who was simply great and you can not find where he did it and she has great results at a timy fraction of the usa cost. I had 1/2 of my nose replaced in Trinidad as a first class facility for less than $2k and when I went to another dermatologist they were surprised by the quality of the work. Had a root canal in Tunisia for about $200 or so.

I go the dermatologist a lot walk right in and pay less than $20 for a consult and exam. We are currently paying about the same for a dentist.

We were going to get on a policy with some cruising friends but when the insurance company found out I was over 65 they refused.

So we go with out and it is always in the back of our minds - what if.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by chuckr

We are Americans and been out of the USA for the 5 years or so and I am 69 and admiral is 67.........So we go with out and it is always in the back of our minds - what if.

So why not sign up for Medicare, so if something happens that is long term expensive you could return to the US and be covered?

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by BandB

I hesitate to post this and just ask for slight indulgence from the rest of you.

I'm not going to argue that much to my chagrin many employees have lost benefits, but as a businessman, I'm tired of the cop out that has become so convenient to employers. I'm not arguing against what you said, but I am arguing against what your employer is telling you. Prior to my retirement I worked for a company employing about 4,000 people in the US and never during my 20+ years there were benefits decreased or taken away. My wife and I own a business employing nearly 2,000 people today and their benefits are great. I'd also like to say that we pay no one the Florida minimum wage of $7.93 per hour. (US minimum currently $7.25 per hour, as it has been since 2009, for our non-US brethren).

The government has never under any administration forced employers to take away benefits or otherwise treat employees poorly. Businesses choose to do so. There are a few major employers in retail and even convenience stores who provide benefits to all full time employees and pay everyone above minimum wage.

It's just a pet peeve of mine to see businessmen who blame everything on someone else, the government, the competitor, the economy, even the weather as the employees suffer. Then they parachute away with a $10-15 million severance.

Google the DeMoulas Market Basket story in New England for a very interesting take on this subject. Family-owned grocery chain that treated its employees and customers well, plus made plenty of money. One side of the family decided they wanted more. The other side wanted to keep employee pay and benefits up, and keep prices down.

Spoiler alert: this one had a relatively happy ending, in that the "good guys" won. For now. They are carrying a ton of debt after buying out the other side. We'll see where it goes from here. Meanwhile, I go out of my way to shop there. I never really noticed what a great bunch the employees are, but now I appreciate their commitment and positive attitude every time I'm in the store.

[zboss]

You misunderstand. This is not about a company dropping healthcare, its about another aspect of income negotiations that we can no longer use as a bargaining chip. Mr. Obama has taken that away from all employees.

What's next, ObamaSalary? Lets pre-negotiate everyone's salary so that High School diplomas always get pay band X, College grads get pay band Y, and post grads get Z?

He has basically taken 12.5K out of my pocket every year.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by Paul L

So why not sign up for Medicare, so if something happens that is long term expensive you could return to the US and be covered?

Paul -- we did sign up for part a and part b (i thing it is part b) but not the supplemental. Just a bit of reading we have done it appears few and fewer doctors are accepting Medicare patients and as we do not have a home it will probably be difficult to just move someplace and find a doctor who will accept us. I would speculate that when we do stop cruising and become dirt dwellers we will get a supplemental at some point.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Paul -- we did sign up for part a and part b (i thing it is part b) but not the supplemental. Just a bit of reading we have done it appears few and fewer doctors are accepting Medicare patients and as we do not have a home it will probably be difficult to just move someplace and find a doctor who will accept us. I would speculate that when we do stop cruising and become dirt dwellers we will get a supplemental at some point.

So this means that you are insured if anything major and long-term occurs. Don't fall for the hype of not being able to find a doc who will take you. Half of FLA is a Medicare clinic.