Unethical Practice by my Boat Yard?

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

Haven’t talked to them yet, I’ll be at the yard tomorrow to make the cruise up to my harbor so planning to chat with them then . In fairness to them they may be understanding and remove it, probably a bit more upset than I should be but just wanted to see what others thought.

The yard has a fair charge for launching and discovering the leak, as long as they don't charge for blocking and scrubbing.

Boating is not a cheap hobby and furthermore, the industry needs to remember boating comes after taxes.
But with all the regulations today involved in a waterfront operation, boat yards are not get rich schemes. That travel lift has a real cost, as well, a multitude of indirect costs.

In the discussion of a leak, is the yard negligent causing the leak or is this a result of layup , weather, age, etc . and therefore a real cost of your hobby?

[Goodxcharly]

It seems reasonable to me. They fixed the thruhull and relaunched your Catalina 27. Nothing hidden or unethical and you’re still under a $Boatbuck!

[new-to-sailing]

Originally Posted by boat driver

The yard has a fair charge for launching and discovering the leak, as long as they don't charge for blocking and scrubbing.

Boating is not a cheap hobby and furthermore, the industry needs to remember boating comes after taxes.
But with all the regulations today involved in a waterfront operation, boat yards are not get rich schemes. That travel lift has a real cost, as well, a multitude of indirect costs.

In the discussion of a leak, is the yard negligent causing the leak or is this a result of layup , weather, age, etc . and therefore a real cost of your hobby?

As I wasn’t there when the launched (which I have now learned I will not miss again), hard for me to say the cause. Frankly I suspect that it may have been caused by their own mishandling as the transducer is relatively new and had no issues last season.

[CaptainRivet]

Well boat was hanging in the slings, so do they just relift it for 50cm so its out of the water so they can reseal the throughhull, rhen this is part of first launch. Tjats why you agree to their expensive labour.
Thats how a small issue like this is normally dealt with, just happened here on friday.

If you haul it completly put and later in you could have done woek yourself. They didn't communicate that so you don't have to pay.
Its not unethical, boatyards have in common bad communication and you have to think for them too. So if your local one just talk friendly to them they didn't mention that and what solution they offer. Often you pay a half, rehaul out.
You need to keep good relation...tjats important.
When you are on there yard, its their kingdom and you are in their faith, doesn't matter what law says....

[TMarvin]

Oh the joy of boat ownership..... I had mine pulled 3 times in one year, just had to suck it up... Yes, be glad they checked and you didn't find the leak later on and had to reschedule another haul out. Pay it and enjoy sailing that will be one of your cheapest repairs.

[lestersails]

If you have a yard that is conscientiously launching your boat on your behalf, paying attention, detecting a problem, fixing it, and charging you a reasonable rate, I wouldn't pay them - I would pay them and tip them. I agree with many other posters that you need to own up to this, get used to it, and develop a good relationship with the yard you are using. Learn their names, chat them up when you don't want something from them, and thank them profusely when they do what's needed and charge you a reasonable rate. This is a rounding error. You have just gone to school and learned a really valuable lesson for a couple hundred bucks that could save you thousands when you have a bigger problem.
Without in any way accusing them of anything shady in the past, going forward you need to adopt the practice of asking "is that the total anticipated charge or is there anything else I should expect?" I have no evidence for this, but I think that small business people learn who is frugal and who is profligate and to a degree they are charged accordingly. Nothing morally or legally wrong with it, it's just the nature of transactions in a free market.
Parallel situation with my last auto service. Went in for oil change, which they have done for me many times in the past. Good shop overall. The bill this time included $15 more for a pint of "oil additive" on top of the oil charge. It was explained to me that modern motor oils maximize MPG and do not protect engines. Complete horse manure, of course - this is just a half pint of motor oil with a couple of dubious compounds added and if I am lucky, they don't do anything but are not actually harmful to the engine. Lesson learned - and the fault is mine. I have to ask them what the total cost will be and the breakdown of the charges.

[siamese]

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

As I wasn’t there when the launched (which I have now learned I will not miss again), hard for me to say the cause. Frankly I suspect that it may have been caused by their own mishandling as the transducer is relatively new and had no issues last season.

It could be anywhere from:

a. It never leaked, and all they did was say it did and billed you for it

to

b. They found the leak, fixed it, and charged you accordingly

My local Subaru dealership is basically a criminal enterprise that charges for work they haven't done, unless you catch them at it.

My local sail marina, remarkably, has a deserved reputation for fair dealing, and I've used them for decades.

There's another large marina in my locale that employs every dishonest trick in the book to separate boaters from their money. And if that's not bad enough, they do shoddy work.

Car dealerships RV dealerships, and marinas are terrific opportunities for crooks. Which isn't to say they're ALL crooks, but those businesses attract crooks. Based on what you've told us, I see no reason to legitimately suspect your marina of bad acts. Pay them with a smile, and going forward, keep an eye on them, but no more than you would with any business.

[Ratty1978]

Ethics are good things, but typically don't govern transactions unless they are written ethics rules. There would, essentially, be a contract, maybe their posted rates for things, and if that doesn't provide an answer there's a second way to govern money transactions for things you "get". (Historically it's called "quantum meruit" -- the amount they deserve). You got a not-sunk boat. They paid a crane operator for the time and used the equipment, very possibly interrupting other launches and paying guys to move boats around. Would it have been better customer service to have told you (maybe reminding you) that you pay every time the boat is lifted or lowered? Sure. Would you have told them "just let the boat sink"? Unlikely.

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

I am getting ready to launch my Catalina 27 in the coming days, the yard put the boat in the water on Tuesday (I was not there). They called me and said there was a small amount of water coming in through a transducer and said it would just take an hour or two at a labor rate of $140 to fix it. I agreed and today I get the bill for the work $225 for the repair and then $324 on top of that for a re haul out and launch. On the phone they didn’t mention this additional cost and the boat was still on the slings when they called me, I assumed it would just be the labor cost.

Am I out of line to push back on these charges? Feels fair to me given what I was told on the phone?

[OS2Dude]

The yard here offers what they call a 'Short Haul' that is cheaper than a full haul. The boat stays in the slings for up to an hour and is not put onto stands. Technically no one is allowed on board while in the slings in case of a failure, but I've seen them do it anyway. It is about half the cost, but a full haul here includes the rental for the stands for 1 week.

You could try to ask for a discount if they didn't place the boat back on the stands, and/or if the stand rental is included in the haul and had already been paid for the day.

As others have said, be glad they noticed the leak and offered to fix it.

[Carl-T705]

Just be thankful they noticed the leak before the boat filled with water in the slip. They inspected your boat and discovered a leak after an inspection or did the sling catch on the transducer and cause the leak which is why they did the inspection??? You don't know because you were not on site. It's just life, the boat floats and you're out another couple hundred bucks. Yeah, they might have explained it better and yeah, you could have told them to notify you when they were going to wet the hull because you want to be present. Perhaps better communication on both sides may have been in order. You want to be the guy that the marina employees enjoying working with, not the SOB that complained when he had to pay a couple hundred extra bucks when they kept your boat from flooding. It's Springtime, move on and enjoy the short season.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

I am getting ready to launch my Catalina 27 in the coming days, the yard put the boat in the water on Tuesday (I was not there). They called me and said there was a small amount of water coming in through a transducer and said it would just take an hour or two at a labor rate of $140 to fix it. I agreed and today I get the bill for the work $225 for the repair and then $324 on top of that for a re haul out and launch. On the phone they didn’t mention this additional cost and the boat was still on the slings when they called me, I assumed it would just be the labor cost.

Am I out of line to push back on these charges? Feels fair to me given what I was told on the phone?

Welcome to boating. I am on-scene with anything having to do with my boat at a marina or boat yard here in the Washington. I know that practices are different in other parts of the country, but my outlook is that you oversee whatever you value. My son's 25' sailboat in Michigan is handled the same way as yours was in the spring/fall and he is not on-scene; he is on the other side of the state working or whatever...that acorn fell too far from the tree.

[Shaneesprit]

All costs are held against your vessel, I agree the cost was unexpected and can see your grievance but your not going to win that argument, so put it down to experience. - I have heard a lot worse.

My boat yard won’t put boat in the water unless you are present. They insisted I check for leaks before removing strops. If I have a leak - I will expect to be put back on the hard - I very much doubt they would attempt a fix right away, not because they won’t but. As like it says above - really screws with their schedule.

and yes would expect the bill for a second lift

[new-to-sailing]

Appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this one, while I understand as many have pointed out that charging for the boat to be relaunched has a cost I was not debating that. I still feel that they misrepresented the cost of work and handled the situation poorly, no matter what industry it is the operator owes customers transparency and just because boating is shady a lot of times makes no excuse.

General Takeaways that could benefit anyone
1. This is the biggest one, never have the yard launch or haul my boat without being present.
2. If the yard needs to perform any work ask very detailed questions, ask them a number of times and get it in writing (will be moving to DIY for nearly everything at this point though)
3. It seems to me that there are many out there who have had really bad experiences and while this was minor it’s on us as consumers to hold these places accountable. If everything is accepted as is nothing will improve.

Personally I won’t be doing business with this yard anymore and will detail some other issues I had in another post later. Fortunately I have 4-5 other yards to choose from and am coming to learn the pricing at this yard is not even relatively competitive. I can also understand that many can’t do this so managing the relationship is important if you are in a location with limited options.

[PuttingDoctor]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I generally agree, although a good yard will do like this one and make sure they have access to the boat to check for leaks before pulling the boat out of the slings.

I agree with the above. Did your launch date depend upon their calendar? If you had planned for a later date it is cause for question. I would want to be present for launch, inspection while in the slings and simple tightening of any loose and leaking thru hulls.
I think I’d speak to whomever is in charge with your questions in a polite and inquisitive manner.

[s/v Jedi]

I would just ask what work exactly they did. If it was just reseating the transducer as I suspect then I would complain. If they resealed it, you should see the new sealant around the fitting.