Time Out of Florida ?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Seaduction

Also, when you register an out of state purchased boat in Florida, the Florida tax collector will want to see proof of sales tax paid in another state. I had to show my bill of sale to them so they could see I had paid the tax 13 years prior.

Really? That is a bit scary. When I bought my boat in NY and registered in RI (am dual resident of FL and RI) the FL Dept of Rev and DNR posted regs on the internet and both confirmed by phone that if the boat was purchased out of FL, registered and used out of FL for min of 6 months then there would be no obligation to pay FL sales tax if the boat was moved to FL and registered there at a later date.

So how long ago were you asked to show your 13 year old bill of sale?

[travler37]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I'm still confused. You are buying it in Florida, but plan to register it in North Dakota? Are you planning to keep it in North Dakota?

You say that you're "sailing it north." Obviously you're not planning to sail it to North Dakota, so where do you plan to go?

You will find that most of the states on the east coast have laws that are similar to Florida. That is, if you stay for more than X number of days then you have to register the boat in that state. And when you register, if you have not paid sales/use tax on the boat in some other state, then you will have to pay that state's sales/use tax. I believe Delaware is an exception, but otherwise you are almost certainly going to have to pay the tax somewhere.

Am not planning on staying in the country with her.
Will be leaving the country in Nov. for a hopefully permanant cruse.Realy have no intention of returning.
Will move her up and down the coast and do a little work on her as the tax rules let me.
Broker has explained it and is a amazing system.Basically drives people out of the state.
Thank You
Mark

[Noname]

An out of state boat and its owner does not have to register the boat in Florida if the current state (other state) registration is valid and the owner intends to return to his home state eventually (not limited to 90 days) in a "reasonable amount of time". If the owner is taking up residence in Florida, then the vessel needs to be registered in Florida, or Titled in Florida unless it fits the exemtions from Titling in Florida (such as a Documented vessel). For your own information please read the available information online rather than taking the opinions of the kind and helpful folks here that are trying to help the "Travler37" original poster.

[Noname]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Really? That is a bit scary. When I bought my boat in NY and registered in RI (am dual resident of FL and RI) the FL Dept of Rev and DNR posted regs on the internet and both confirmed by phone that if the boat was purchased out of FL, registered and used out of FL for min of 6 months then there would be no obligation to pay FL sales tax if the boat was moved to FL and registered there at a later date.

So how long ago were you asked to show your 13 year old bill of sale?

It was about February 2011.

[Robin3]

We bought in Florida last July and our original plan was to move the boat to Virginia. Sales tax in VA is capped at $2,000 so can be a good saving, but that was not our only reason for choosing there. We were told that for a fee of I think $48 we could extend the 30 days grace to leave FL to 90 days and once in that 90 days for another fee of I think $480 could extend it to a maximum of 180 days with no more after that. We were told we had to prove we would register in VA and paid the sales tax there. We live in the UK but are waiting to move to the USA, we could not guarantee to do that move to VA within the 180 day maximum period so in the end bit the bullet and paid the FL sales tax, the boat is federal documented and FL use decals bought but the tender is FL registered, also decals bought.

In the event, having paid the FL sales tax we have decided to stay in FL since we would have come back that way anyway later to cruise there and the Bahamas. Truth is we will probably not now move to VA as a new permanent base, but if we did there would be no extra sales or use tax due. By not having to return and do a special delivery trip (which would have coincided with Irene!) we saved what we had to pay out in additional taxes to FL anyway.

As a Brit (wife is American) I find the USA tax situation highly confusing. I had this strange idea once that America was one country, I just missed the bit about State laws and taxes being different everywhere you go!

My real point is that I think there is a possible 180 day max limit to leave FL, but it costs $48 +$480 to get it AND you have to prove your intention to register it in another place. Otherwise the buggers will get you anyway, you might as well surrender and cough up now.

[Noname]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Really? That is a bit scary. When I bought my boat in NY and registered in RI (am dual resident of FL and RI) the FL Dept of Rev and DNR posted regs on the internet and both confirmed by phone that if the boat was purchased out of FL, registered and used out of FL for min of 6 months then there would be no obligation to pay FL sales tax if the boat was moved to FL and registered there at a later date.

So how long ago were you asked to show your 13 year old bill of sale?

A quote from the FL state brochure which I referenced earlier:

If the sales tax on the total purchase price of the vessel has
not been paid, it will be necessary for the vessel owner to
remit this payment with the above referenced fees. If the
sales tax has been paid, the vessel owner should furnish the
county tax collector with a valid receipt indicating where the
sales tax was paid and that it was paid in an amount equal to

or greater than the applicable sales tax.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Seaduction

A quote from the FL state brochure which I referenced earlier:

If the sales tax on the total purchase price of the vessel has
not been paid, it will be necessary for the vessel owner to
remit this payment with the above referenced fees. If the
sales tax has been paid, the vessel owner should furnish the
county tax collector with a valid receipt indicating where the
sales tax was paid and that it was paid in an amount equal to

or greater than the applicable sales tax.

Also from the FL Dept of Revenue website.

Use tax and surtax are not due on boats brought to Florida if you meet

all of the following conditions:

•

You own the boat 6 months or longer, and

•

You have shown no intent to use the boat in Florida at or before the time of purchase, and

•

The boat has been in use 6 months or longer within the taxing jurisdiction of another state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia. Time spent in foreign waters does not count as part of the 6-month period.

[Noname]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Also from the FL Dept of Revenue website.


Use tax and surtax are not due on boats brought to Florida if you meet

all of the following conditions:

•

You own the boat 6 months or longer, and

•

You have shown no intent to use the boat in Florida at or before the time of purchase, and

•

The boat has been in use 6 months or longer within the taxing jurisdiction of another state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia. Time spent in foreign waters does not count as part of the 6-month period.

We were talking about sales tax.

[denverd0n]

Right. So, Seaduction, you could have proven to them that you already paid tax, or you could have proven that you owned and used it outside of Florida for more than 6 months. Either one would exempt you from having to pay sales/use tax to Florida.

One point is that the "used" outside Florida part is important. If you simply move it outside of Florida for 6 months and a day, but never use it, and then bring it back, the tax collector will conclude that you intended to use it in Florida all along, and will come after you. There have, in fact, been court cases of people who bought a boat in FL, moved it out of the state and put it into storage, never used it, then brought it back to FL more than 6 months later and tried to claim they did not owe sales tax--they lost. In other cases, where they could prove that they were using the boat outside of FL, they did not have to pay the tax.

And, yes, there is a provision for extending the 90 day grace period to 180 days. I'm not sure about the details. In any case you want to check the FL Dept. of Revenue (dor.myflorida.com) website for all of the details about sales/use tax, and the FL Dept. of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles website (Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles) for details about registration.

[Noname]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Right. So, Seaduction, you could have proven to them that you already paid tax, or you could have proven that you owned and used it outside of Florida for more than 6 months. Either one would exempt you from having to pay sales/use tax to Florida.

One point is that the "used" outside Florida part is important. If you simply move it outside of Florida for 6 months and a day, but never use it, and then bring it back, the tax collector will conclude that you intended to use it in Florida all along, and will come after you. There have, in fact, been court cases of people who bought a boat in FL, moved it out of the state and put it into storage, never used it, then brought it back to FL more than 6 months later and tried to claim they did not owe sales tax--they lost. In other cases, where they could prove that they were using the boat outside of FL, they did not have to pay the tax.

And, yes, there is a provision for extending the 90 day grace period to 180 days. I'm not sure about the details. In any case you want to check the FL Dept. of Revenue (dor.myflorida.com) website for all of the details about sales/use tax, and the FL Dept. of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles website (Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles) for details about registration.

Thank You Denverdon. I was not the one with the original questions, nor was I trying to avoid/evade taxes. I was only contributing my personal experience along with pertinent webpages (which you also cited). Having kept my original bill of sale, etc. from my purchase in Maryland resulted in a very easy Florida registration for me. If I have a choice, I will always choose to abide by the laws governing the transaction. Life is much easier that way. I think the original poster in this thread wanted to avoid/evade paying required taxes by remaining in Florida longer than allowed. I suppose he/she could apply to the state for a special exemption or hardship exemption, if that's possible.

[Nicholson58]

We bought in FLorida and had it shipped to Michigan. We had to pay sales tax in Michigan; coincidentally the same as Florida at 6%. In order to splash the boat we also had to pay the Michigan Registration & use tax which is progressively weighted withthe size. I was told bigger boats pay more due to their increased wear and tear on state boat launches etc. The fact that we can't get within 100 yards of any launch in the state and will never ride the highway doesn't register with the state pinheads. Registration is 550 bucks - not small change.

The OP's plan suggests to me that the boat is probably not huge; maybe trailerable or at least easily trucked. He also stated that there is NO SALES TAX in ND for used boats; how civilized. His best bet is to get the boat on the hard, especially on a trailer. The state water and tax cops are not likely to notice it if it is parked behind some guy's barn 10 miles from the coast or maybe not even in the boat yard. Otherwise, get it out of FL ASASP. If he needs to have it hauled by a pro, have the pro pick it up and transport to his yard where it is clearly in transit and will not be noticed.

Once the boat is registered in ND the owner can take it anywhere, usually after some reasonable time and guest sail without problems as long as there is a registration record in the state of the owner' drivers license. I certainly never expect to be hassled anywhere in the US with my Michigan sticker on the bow. Usual official guest stays are around 60 days. This is seldom enforced and in Michigan one need only keep moving once in a while to re-set the clock.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Seaduction

We were talking about sales tax.

In Florida it is "Sales and Use tax". Lumped together so not sure what the distinction would be between sales tax and use tax. Bottom line it doesn't really seem to matter as the same regulations apply. I think that sales tax is a tax you pay when you buy a new item and use tax is a tax you pay when you buy a used item but I'm only guessing here.

Link to the DOR form. Note at the top it says "Sales and Use Tax".

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2011/gt800005.pdf

As a dual resident of FL and RI who purchased a boat in NY in 2009 and kept it in RI for the first year I spent hours researching the issue. I read all the written regulations carefully and then called to discuss and confirm my conclusions with the local DNR and DOR offices and then called the state HQ of the same offices to get a second, confirming opinion from another agent.

I wanted to make really sure that I was in full compliance with FL regulations and not face taxes and possible penalties if I didn't do it right. Unless the rules have changed since then I'm pretty sure of the FL regs on this.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or certified tax expert. All opinions are strictly my opinions based on my best understanding of the situation.

[gpdno]

Living in FL and having bought my boats in FL it's really not that big of an issue. When you go and register your boat the person just asks you how much you paid. I've never been asked to prove the amount by providing documentation, sales receipt, etc... Most people I know put a reasonable amount down for the sale price, say $1500, pay $90 in sales/use tax and call it good

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by gpdno

Most people I know put a reasonable amount down for the sale price, say $1500, pay $90 in sales/use tax and call it good

Try that when you're buying a 50' sailboat that's only three years old and see if they consider $1500 a "reasonable amount."

People who are buying boats that can be passed off as $1500 don't usually worry too much about the sales tax. Those who are buying boats for $200k or more are the ones for whom it is worth the time and effort to try to minimize the taxes as much as possible.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I think that sales tax is a tax you pay when you buy a new item and use tax is a tax you pay when you buy a used item but I'm only guessing here.

Actually, the "use tax" is to get something from those who bought the boat elsewhere, didn't pay sales taxes on it there, and yet intend to move it to and use it in Florida (or most any other state, for that matter--most of them have some sort of "use tax").

Otherwise everyone would just buy their boats in one of the few states that do not charge any sales tax, and then immediately ship them to wherever they really wanted to use them in the first place. The use tax is a "gotcha" for people who might try to do that.