Dollars and Sense 2013

[smaarch]

one year I stepped aboard and realized i had only been out 3 or 4 times for the season so the decision was made to either move the boat to a less expensive location and use it, or sell it.
I ended up on a mooring within walking distance of home
$500/yr. mooring + $1400 winter storage and bottom paint + about $1000 for maintenance/repairs
all said around $3000 per year - often less as i'm a small boat (30') and all the work is done by me.
based on this I've come up with a few different ways of looking at it. (yes rationalizing!)

seasonal cost: 60 days = $50 per sailing day
seasonal + maintenance 120 days (i like working on my boat) = $25/day
2000 hrs a year of work = $1.50 per hour.
The Dream: 365 days = $8.21/day

It's cheaper than:
a train ticket to Grand Central Station
a glass of wine
a night out
a pack of cigarettes
etc.

It's all about priorities

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I did not include any payments, payments adjusted for depreciation or some future realised value, are cash flow, rather then costs. running the boat , food, marinas, maintenance are genuine costs of ownership.

I suppose you could extrapolate a future realisable value, convert it to net present value and deduct that from the payments the balance being a genuine cost.

dave

The amount you paid for the boat and additional equipment is also an actual cost, and if you want a simpler way to figure it out, just take what you paid, deduct what it's currently worth and amortize it over the time you've owned the boat. Anyway, it will reflect your costs more accurately than leaving it out.

[letsgetsailing3]

At the end of the day, you can always simply leave it at "I spent most of my money on women, drink, boats and cars, and squandered the rest."

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

............................. You're correct about saving on other areas of your life, though. Living on land is full of paying for utilities and taxes. But someone has to pay to educate the future generation and provide for social services, right?

This proposal that those living aboard are not contributing to taxes for social services has been brought up before and the idea is a continuing disappointment to those of us that live aboard. The taxes paid by liveaboards through their slip fees that support the property taxes for marinas are no different than the manner in which all renters of apartments are paying into the same tax base. We also pay thousands of dollars as a sales tax on the purchase of our homes and sales tax is not applied to the purchase of a house. It's true that it is less expensive to own less, but those that are living on boats are not finding this as an opportunity for social irresponsibility. Please don't spread this myth.

[Boatguy30]

No need to get too off topic, but if you were solely at anchor and anchor and landed your dinghy at public parks and ramps, lived in a state like florida with no grocery tax, ordered your spares online from out of state.....

[sailorboy1]

you guys have sucked all the fun out of this thread

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

No need to get too off topic, but if you were solely at anchor and anchor and landed your dinghy at public parks and ramps, lived in a state like florida with no grocery tax, ordered your spares online from out of state.....

You are absolutely right, but this is not representive of most that live aboard boats. Just as most living on land are not in cardboard boxes under the freeway overpass. Certainly the quality of a simple life on the water is better. Either way, it's a common practice for those with less property to pay less property tax. It still remains true that most of those living aboard boats are paying taxes in the same manner as those renting apartments.

....sailorboy 1, I'll try not to "suck anymore joy" out of this thread!
...speaking of joy, there's a great freedom in non-ownership!

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

This proposal that those living aboard are not contributing to taxes for social services has been brought up before and the idea is a continuing disappointment to those of us that live aboard. The taxes paid by liveaboards through their slip fees that support the property taxes for marinas are no different than the manner in which all renters of apartments are paying into the same tax base. We also pay thousands of dollars as a sales tax on the purchase of our homes and sales tax is not applied to the purchase of a house. It's true that it is less expensive to own less, but those that are living on boats are not finding this as an opportunity for social irresponsibility. Please don't spread this myth.

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? Schools are supported by property taxes as a way to get people with bigger houses or plots of land (not bigger families) to help pay for schools. I'm not trying to blast cruisers for not contributing, and I didn't them "irresponsible". These are your words, not mine. Boats aren't taxed the same way as real estate. That's a good thing. I don't think anyone is buying a boat in order to avoid taxes, but it may be a small consideration, and a valid one at that.

The real topic here is looking at the realistic cost of cruising, as opposed to the myopic view that cruising is simply the cost of mooring or slipping your boat + maintenance costs.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

..................

The real topic here is looking at the realistic cost of cruising, as opposed to the myopic view that cruising is simply the cost of mooring or slipping your boat + maintenance costs.

Right, - and considering the real topic, I'll share something my wife and I noticed a few years ago. For the past eleven years we have typically been cruising from Maine to the Bahamas seasonally and spending the months of November, December, March & April at a marina in North Florida near family. We take a monthly rate at the North Florida marina just take occasional day sails and complete more maintenance projects. While we are cruising we anchor out most often, but sometimes pay transient rates at a few marinas for short stays and we sometimes spend the tourist dollars while visiting new places. We do use more diesel fuel while crusing and we also more frequenly run our generator. When we looked at our monthly total expenses we were surprised to find that, although we spend differently, we are spending at the same rate while cruising as at the dock.

[passat5919]

Originally Posted by SVRapture40

One of the top things I always hear when someone experienced is giving counsel to a perspective cruiser is "know your boat". It would seem that would be hard to do with a last minute purchase before setting out.

My personal experience - I bought my boat 4 years ago. In that 4 years I paid the loan off, spent a lot of time getting to know how to sail my boat, figured out what worked and what didn't and changed the latter. Now we are retired on a boat that we know very well that is outfitted like we want it. Really happy with the way I did it, but then I am sure it is not the best method for everyone.

I like these, going same way. People should realize that if you buy the boat you not cruise right away, just not happen this way. I'm several years from retirement, but looking for boat now. Hopefully will buy 42' next month

[terminalcitygrl]

We did the math and decided we wouldn't buy our boat until we were ready to live aboard full time. Instead we did a boat share this year for $2k fixed cost and almost unlimited use. Was the best move financially. When our sweet old kitty passes and the stars align we will buy our boat likely on the east coast and spend a year or two in the Bahamas.

[kthoennes]

Coincidentally our marina management is being more annoying than usual lately (and it's the only marina for big boats for 200 miles so we're stuck). Therefore, we spent this weekend hiking all over recreational property. Simple little cabin on the water, our own slip or mooring ball, etc. We looked at a one acre parcel. Not on the water itself, but fantastic water view and rights to a small slip with it. Land, $120,000. Home owners association fees, $650 a year. Escrow buy-in to the marina membership: $8500, although that is refundable if you ever sell the property and the marina rights to the next buyer (that's a new one on me, but okay). Rural water hook-up, electrical hook-up, then digging the septic. Permit fees. Property taxes about $1200 per year -- and that's without any structure on it, just as it is now, bare land. And the HOA doesn't want junky crude cabins on the property (I understand) so the covenant requires a minimum 1000 square foot "standard residential construction" house. When you put all that together our money hemorrhage for the boat at the marina doesn't seem too bad after all.

[Boatguy30]

You're living aboard year round in South Dakota?

[kthoennes]

Oh no, I wish -- no, the boat is a solid popsicle on jack stands and blocks in the storage yard and won't splash again until May 1. That was one more reason we've been thinking about lakefront property, year round use. More time to use the investment across the year, and our own slip for the big boat rather than renting one every year and flushing the money. But then of course the boat is portable if we change jobs, etc., and land is an anchor. Appreciating asset, depreciating asset. Can't do the Loop in a cabin (well, I know some people build a shed on pontoons but we're no Huck Finns). This is such a First World problem, trying to figure out how to get the most out of your recreational money budget. We just need to win the Powerball so we can do it all and not have to make choices like this (well, relatively small choices anyway).