Cruising on $5,000 / Month

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Doodles

LOL .. you think chartering is expensive, wait until you OWN a 40' boat!



Have you heard of the expression "boat bucks" yet?

I'm sure you are correct, I'm used to maintaining airplanes, similar situation, but if your spending the money on something that is yours hopefully with the idea of improving it reliability etc, at the end of the day it's yours.

I'm sure you have the old adage, it it flies, floats or well you know. Rent it don't buy it.
People rent airplanes with this theory, but I have always preferred to own one and I think as I have always done almost all of my own maintenance I have come out way ahead.
Now if you live far away and your idea of maintenance is writing a check, then maybe you would be better off renting.

Truth is, buying a 27 yr old boat is scaring the beezus out of me. But the airplane I sold to help finance it was 32 yrs old and the airplane I kept is 68 yrs old, so if well kept I hope a boat can last as long as an airplane.
The part that worries me is what it's going to cost to bring her up to my standards. Thing in my favor is the boat is essentially a stripped, stock boat. Only modifications that I can find that was done is a Racor and some kind of mast mounted TV antenna and an additional bilge pump.
Not many "improvements" made by a PO that has to come out.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The part that worries me is what it's going to cost to bring her up to my standards. .

And it SHOULD!

Our 37K 36ft 1978 Pearson 365 Ketch cost us 93K by the time we were done...and she didn't need any "major" work mind you...just was stripped down and bare without any real cruising gear, so we had to start from nothing. Of course once we had her perfect we sold her $39K and bought another boat and are doing it all over agian now! How's that for heard headed for ya...

And trying comparing a 7 day Charter to Cruising...not even close.

When was the last time a charter boat advertized their week in paradise as:

"Working (and paying for out of your Vacation fund) on the engine, head, electrical wiring, refrigeration, rigging, bilge pump, batteries, teak, bottom, zincs, dingy, nav lights, Radar, Autopilot, GPS, windlass, chafe gear, starter, generator, alternator, and replacing a "Joker Valve" that you didn't have aboard and had to somehow find, pay for and ship to "Paradise".

And folks...working on all that list and paying for it out of your cruising kitty IS what cruising is all about. Every charter advertizement I have ever seen never shows someone upside down in the bilge and covered in diesel fuel and oil while eating the lunch prepared by the crew.

My kids...ya...they Charter.
Me....not so much because I'm the responsible party. Come to think of it, I know myself and that is SCARY!

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I'm sure you are correct, I'm used to maintaining airplanes, similar situation, but if your spending the money on something that is yours hopefully with the idea of improving it reliability etc, at the end of the day it's yours.

I'm sure you have the old adage, it it flies, floats or well you know. Rent it don't buy it.
People rent airplanes with this theory, but I have always preferred to own one and I think as I have always done almost all of my own maintenance I have come out way ahead.
Now if you live far away and your idea of maintenance is writing a check, then maybe you would be better off renting.

Truth is, buying a 27 yr old boat is scaring the beezus out of me. But the airplane I sold to help finance it was 32 yrs old and the airplane I kept is 68 yrs old, so if well kept I hope a boat can last as long as an airplane.
The part that worries me is what it's going to cost to bring her up to my standards. Thing in my favor is the boat is essentially a stripped, stock boat. Only modifications that I can find that was done is a Racor and some kind of mast mounted TV antenna and an additional bilge pump.
Not many "improvements" made by a PO that has to come out.

My chartering recommendation had nothing to do with maintenance. I'm sure you can handle that fine. Here is my concern and reason for suggesting not jumping into ownership so fast. You said …

As far as keeping the other half happy, it's actually pretty crucial, if she isn't happy, how long do you think you will be? I used to enjoy camping, found out pretty quick my wife does not, she will go somewhere in a fully equipped camper, but forget a tent. Oh, she will go, but nobody's going to enjoy it so years ago I got a 36' fifth wheel. During boat shopping I found a 32' I liked, fit me well. SHe sat in it and I could tell she wasn't thrilled, I asked her waht was wrong and her answer was it would get awfully small on rainy days, so I'm buying a 38'. This boat she is happy with and has started shopping on how to "decorate it" whatever that means.

Many of us know people who have been there and it is not pretty. Just saying ...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

"Real cruising", to me is not a short vacation trip, but a committed life style where one expects to do it for months at the least and really, a period of years. A time frame where wear and tear, maintenance, weather decisions, dealing with officials, getting away from support providers, provisioning and all those things missing from the charter environment become major factors in ones life. All too often we see folks whose cruises are cut short when they are confronted with such realities, and are not prepared or willing to meet them.

I'm with Jim. The challenges of a cruising lifestyle, or even just owning your own boat, are far different that chartering. These are the real challenges of the cruising lifestyle. This is why I always recommend people spend their money on a small cruising boat first. It's not the sailing or exploring new areas that is challenging. It is all the things that go into supporting and maintaining a cruising life.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Finally, for the many folks who are operating on a restricted budget, the costs of all these charters ("try out lots of different boats") represent a lot of cruising kitty funds. I think that there are better uses for that money if your aim is to really go cruising.

This is the reason we did not charter. I was lucky enough to have exposure to a number of different boats, so was able to use actual experience when choosing our current vessel. Had I not had this opportunity, then I might have considered chartering, but the cost for a week would be a significant proportion of the price of our new (old) boat.

[BandB]

We did charter as part of our selection process, but primarily to see if we liked specific boats as much as we thought we would and to see if what we thought were negatives on one other were really when using it. So as part of our buying decision.

We also did pick up some specifics of things we would do differently or things we liked perfectly as they were.

While we had been on a lot of boats we hadn't been on many in the specific size range we had in mind. We also chartered for longer periods and got a good idea of what it was really like aboard.

Not by any means saying chartering is important or even helpful for all. Just was for us.

[tuffr2]

Great banter and a ton of information and entertaining ideas imbedded in this thread.

Thanks sailorboy1

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[valhalla360]

People are getting too focused on chartering being exactly like full time cruising.

The charting suggestion is not for experienced boaters, who are used to owning and maintaining a boat. It's for the newbies who show up and say they have never been on a boat and are going to sell everything move on a boat and sail off into the sunset in a month.

If you can't make it thru the much easier weeks charter fat and happy, it's probably far better (and cheaper) that you move on to another idea quickly. It doesn't mean you will love full time cruising.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

People are getting too focused on chartering being exactly like full time cruising.

The charting suggestion is not for experienced boaters, who are used to owning and maintaining a boat. It's for the newbies who show up and say they have never been on a boat and are going to sell everything move on a boat and sail off into the sunset in a month.

If you can't make it thru the much easier weeks charter fat and happy, it's probably far better (and cheaper) that you move on to another idea quickly. It doesn't mean you will love full time cruising.

Exactly! I don't know how we got off on this chartering debate. I mentioned it a few pages back as a way a64pilot could find out if his wife was going to be comfortable on a boat only 6' larger than the 32 footer favored. He had made it clear that if the wife wasn't happy nobody was going to be so I suggested chartering a 35 or 40 footer to find out. But he seems determined to buy the 38 footer to find out. Oh well, act in haste regret at leisure as they say.

[valhalla360]

I'm always amazed how many 1-2 yr old boats are for sale. Considering a typical 40' boat is on the order of $500k and you lose $100k the minute you drive it off the lot, not to mention all the costs associated with outfitting with expensive items that a more experienced cruiser might bypass, there are a lot of folks who would be well served by a charter or two.

Remember this is the $5000/month thread not the $500/month thread. We are talking about people who are likely not buying a $5k boat to live on (or if they are, they are spending a $200k to rebuild and outfit it).

[tuffr2]

Don't get me started on the wacky costs of boats and the wacky expense of outfitting. The boat part of the equation will cost approx. 10x more than I thought 2 months ago.

If you buy a brand new boat of 42' and then outfit it with the electronics, dingy, solar, water maker, etc. etc. You are looking at close to 1 million $$$. And yes, that is easy 10x more than I expected.

Needless to say, I will not be buying a virgin boat.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[David_Old_Jersey]

Not sure why folks are getting so het up about the chartering suggestion .

Will chartering a boat for a week or 2 teach someone everything they will ever need to know about cruising? Of course not.

Is it essential? No.

But for those who are cash rich and time poor it is ONE useful tool on their learning curve.......how they use that learning opportunity is up to them, and how much value it is will depend on own circumstances.

Hell, even simply being "out there " cruising does not automatically teach folks everything - no matter the years and / or miles under the keel.

One of the great things about messing around in boats is 'you ' get to decide so much for self from imperfect options - and then get to live with the consequences . Own learning curve is one of those.

[sailorboy1]

I've been looking at marina costs on-line lately. First thing that got to me was how hard it is to find the prices on a lot of marina web sites. The second thing was that the monthly costs in lots of nice warm places are way less than I expected.

While still not "cheap" I'm finding there are lots of options for monthly slips around $600 for my boat. I never would have guessed this based on the costs up in the NE USA where I live and where I'm never stayed at a slip. But I can also see that daily or weekly stays would really add up fast. Almost seems that it would be crazy to go somewhere if you weren't going to stay at least a month if you need a slip.

What does have to do with the topic? It's that we always read that marina costs kill the budget, but it really seems doable on a moderate budget (say even $2k/mo) to stay at a slip.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Exactly! I don't know how we got off on this chartering debate. I mentioned it a few pages back as a way a64pilot could find out if his wife was going to be comfortable on a boat only 6' larger than the 32 footer favored. He had made it clear that if the wife wasn't happy nobody was going to be so I suggested chartering a 35 or 40 footer to find out. But he seems determined to buy the 38 footer to find out. Oh well, act in haste regret at leisure as they say.

We lived with two kids in a 36' fifth wheel trailer (caravan) to some for about a year and a half while re-building the house. That's different of course, but she has an idea of what she wants, besides I've lived with her long enough to have heard "I told you so" more than I ever want to. We have stayed some time on both a 36' and a 45' Sportfisherman, and honestly I don't think vacation time is realistic at all. We have visited an island or two in the Bahamas scuba diving, and thought how wonderful it would be to live there, but I also know that after a month or two at most, I'd be going crazy from boredom. But on the week or two trip, it was wonderful, so wonderful that I think full time would be a let down. A large part of why I don't want to charter is that I'm sure it would be wonderful indeed, and we would be thinking that when we finally get to retire and go off cruising, that it would be like that wonderful charter. But, I'm afraid that full time cruising would not be as wonderful as that charter and we would be depressed because of that. By not chartering, we don't have this un-realistic expectation of how wonderful a cruising life will be.
This cruising thing is my dream, not hers. I think she will go along with it as she has done with other things in the past and even enjoy it, just she's just not the adventurous type on her own, whereas I would go insane sitting on the porch in a rocking chair.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I've been looking at marina costs on-line lately. First thing that got to me was how hard it is to find the prices on a lot of marina web sites. The second thing was that the monthly costs in lots of nice warm places are way less than I expected.

While still not "cheap" I'm finding there are lots of options for monthly slips around $600 for my boat. I never would have guessed this based on the costs up in the NE USA where I live and where I'm never stayed at a slip. But I can also see that daily or weekly stays would really add up fast. Almost seems that it would be crazy to go somewhere if you weren't going to stay at least a month if you need a slip.

What does have to do with the topic? It's that we always read that marina costs kill the budget, but it really seems doable on a moderate budget (say even $2k/mo) to stay at a slip.

$600/month is what we budget. We do stay for a week or month periodically and it is typically less than that. Depending where you stop finding slips for $1-1.50/ft is not uncommon. You slow down in these areas and speed up when the price gets into the $2.5/ft+ range.

The only budget danger I see with staying in slips is it's so much easier to get to shore, you wind up out and about more often and therefore are more like to visit stores, restaurants and sites where you can spend money.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I've been looking at marina costs on-line lately. First thing that got to me was how hard it is to find the prices on a lot of marina web sites. The second thing was that the monthly costs in lots of nice warm places are way less than I expected.

While still not "cheap" I'm finding there are lots of options for monthly slips around $600 for my boat. I never would have guessed this based on the costs up in the NE USA where I live and where I'm never stayed at a slip. But I can also see that daily or weekly stays would really add up fast. Almost seems that it would be crazy to go somewhere if you weren't going to stay at least a month if you need a slip.

What does have to do with the topic? It's that we always read that marina costs kill the budget, but it really seems doable on a moderate budget (say even $2k/mo) to stay at a slip.

You know I've sort of coming to a similar opinion. I think a lot of it is Marinas aren't nearly as full as they used to be 20 or so years ago so slips aren't as easy to rent, plus "things" like real estate etc. are just way cheaper down South than they are up North.
My Marina rates
Rate Chart October 2012 - September 2014 - Panama City Marina