Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-02-2013, 03:35   #16
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Although I think always wise to keep half an eye on resale, nonetheless I would not get overly hung up on it - especially with a 5 year timescale involved.

probably the biggest help (for later resale) that you can "buy" at the outset is brand - "you can always sell a ford", price acheived is a seperate matter!...and with boats will be all about condition, and that solely down to you (a good boat always sells)......as well as selling at the market price from the getgo rather than a year or 2 later (after a slow education!), with those additional costs not recouped.

Whilst always useful to be able to sell to folks with a pen and no cash (for them it is often not "real" money, so they tend to be freer with it ) - with a 20 plus year old boat not so important. Having said that, folks buying on credit does pump up the whole market - but the good news is that you are not buying before that hit the wall fairly hard!, so get the benefits when you buy.

Perhaps the biggest "secret" is simply to accept that you will lose money - it's just a question of how much!
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 10:18   #17
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

A few things I learned long ago:

1. There is no relationship between the price of the boat and the actual condition of the boat. That is to say for example there are two sailboats from the same manufacturer and the same year and one is 40% more then the other. The fact that it is listed for more has no bearing on its actual condition.

2. Avoid looking at the new boats in the magazines. The photos with the flowers on the table are pretty, but they distract from the fact that there are no hand holds anywhere in the main cabin.

3. Hand holds are good, you really can't have too many.

4. The important parts of the boat is the hull, deck, engine(s) and rigging. Everything else is fiddly bits. That is don't worry if the radio or radar is older. The little things are easy to replace.

5. The ads that say ready to cruise are wrong. No boat is ready to cruise when you buy it.

6. Also avoid boats with "Proven Blue water or circumnavigated boat. That translates to "time for a major refit".

7. It will take a year or two to get a boat ready to cruise once you buy it. Maybe longer. Some, OK most never leave.

The Boat you want is the one that someone else just spent 2 years getting ready to cruise, that then had a life issue (health, divorce, etc). That's the boat you want to buy. And no it still will not be ready to go either.

Good luck to you.....
__________________

__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 10:31   #18
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
.

4. The important parts of the boat is the hull, deck, engine(s) and rigging. Everything else is fiddly bits. That is don't worry if the radio or radar is older. The little things are easy to replace.

....

Well I feel the "fiddly bits" are the important parts and the rest are just details that suck up your time and money! But that is just me and I ...............
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 10:35   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Excellent advice from sailorchic! I would add one more caveat. When a listing says "loaded," for most boats it just means more crap to get rid of. For example, electronics that are five years old often don't work right, or don't work at all, or for something like a chart plotter you might have a tough time finding chart chips that still work with it. Myself I often go counterintuitive when looking at older boats. Look for the ones that were built by a quality company, but have been left in storage for long enough to be dirty--the dirtier the cheaper. Ignore the old equipment--you will want to replace that anyway. Look for structural integrity first, cosmetics second. I've seen a lot of boats that looked great in the listings, showed nicely at first, but then had major mechanical or structural issues. Remember, most folks never go anywhere, so a lot of boats sit in a marina for years and years, always on shore power, never running the engine, but getting lots of polish and keeping the interior looking nice. However, when you go to haul up the sails you discover the haliard winches are totally frozen from lack of use and the engine doesn't work.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 12:22   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Quote:

6. Also avoid boats with "Proven Blue water or circumnavigated boat. That translates to "time for a major refit".

7. It will take a year or two to get a boat ready to cruise once you buy it. Maybe longer. Some, OK most never leave.
I agree with your post. I have two comments.

ad 6. Not all of them. But the rule is generally correct.

ad 7. Again, generally correct. But I know of at least one couple who got on their newly bought boat in May and set off in June.

Cheers,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 12:29   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Quote:
7. It will take a year or two to get a boat ready to cruise once you buy it. Maybe longer. Some, OK most never leave.
Ideally, you should plan on it taking a couple of years to get the boat the way you want it, but my current boat I bought in the middle of June and sailed south on her in September. However, we ended up doing a lot of additional work once we got to Florida, where prices are low and everything is still available. You don't want to head off to the Bahamas or the Caribbean without having your boat ready because it gets more expensive and difficult to do anything once you leave the USA. Probably the same for folks starting out in other countries. Just having a car available can make a huge difference in obtaining needed stuff.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 13:34   #22
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,246
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Sailorchic
All true for the inexperienced getting their first boat.

Also age of boat is irrelevant. There are 100 year old hulls out there that are more sea-worthy than some new ones.
__________________
DumnMad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 17:50   #23
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I agree with your post. I have two comments.

ad 6. Not all of them. But the rule is generally correct.

ad 7. Again, generally correct. But I know of at least one couple who got on their newly bought boat in May and set off in June.

Cheers,
b.
Oh true. There are always the exceptions to every rule. But for the majority it still holds well... Like winning the lotto, somebody wins...
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 18:46   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Galveston,Texas
Boat: Flicka, 20' homebuilt
Posts: 82
Images: 4
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

If you plan on taking the kids, take them BEFORE they go to Jr Hi. If you don't, you will never go and you might as well take up knitting. Been there done that! Buy a used boat now that has a good hull and not need a heck of a lot of work and you can fix it up inside and out and sail the hell out of it.
#1 you will know what you need to add as you go out each time and soon the boat will only need food, water and fuel. Forget about taking a new boat as it will look like crap at the end and you will loose big.

#2 Pay cash for the boat and investigate and get offshore insurance, cost about 4-5 thousand a year for 100K. I assume you are selling your house so start getting rid of your toys to convert them into boat cash or cruising bucks.

#3 Before you go and take off, the last year, move on the boat and become a livaboard. This way you and the wife an kids will know where all your stuff is and she will get rid of a lot of shoes! Make up everyone, there own ditty bag with all their own toileries and pills and stuff and their own big towel to go shower in the baths up on the docks.

#4 Make sure you have a wind vane and a autopilot on the boat and a couple of cheap handheld Garmins and store the garmins with out their batteries and in watertight bags, When living on board you will use a lot of ziplock bags for sure. Get a NOOK and load it with books for the kids and cards and their own fishing gear. When they loose their pole you won't scream ay them. Make sure you have AC and DC on board and a microwave is great, I put a gimbel plastic cup holder in mine and can make Cup of Soup for the kids underway in 2 minutes, hot and they like it.

#5 Never and I mean never scream at anyone for anything. Rather try and guide them ( with soft voice) the correct way and life will be better in a confined space and your cruise will last longer. Life as a livaboard and cruiser is different than on land and if there is any friction now then it will be 10 times worse on water, work out a plan that everyone will vote on and agree to live by and go and enjoy yourselves, OH, OH.. take a lot of pictures and keep a diary daily and take pics as you go and a tablet works great for this and keep us up to date whenever you run across the internet to connect to Cruisers Forum.
cheers,This is not optional but manditory if you want your family and a cruise. I livaboard for 4 years with the family and we cruised the Pacific and we made it back and still loved and respected eachother but I had a lot of growing to do as we went and this is experience talking.
Have a good one!
bill cartwright
__________________
bill cartwright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 18:50   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

The thing is I don't really think it takes any longer to get an old boat ready to go cruising, unless it is a real project that needs repairs. I've run into folks with brand new boats who were spending just as much time and money getting their boats ready as folks with older boats. Sometimes the old boat has a lot of cruiser things worked out already that most boats from the factory don't: bigger batteries, better charging systems, deep reefs and everything to handle them, storm sails and rigging, anchors and gear, dinghy stowage, solar panels, etc.

On the kids. We went for two years and came back when my daughter was going to start middle school and my son was going to start high school. I don't think they missed a thing. My son is now in a very good college and my daughter is looking at good colleges. They seem to have done fine.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2013, 18:55   #26
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

In 1997-8 we were seriously looking at boats, our model only. We saw some (cry) sadly neglected models, put an offer in on one that didn't pass a survey (the owner lied about the dual voltage fridge which didn't work on 12V!) and a week later found our "keeper." But the day we put in the first offer on the boat that didn't pass muster, we looked at a new one (they were still making them back then). There was a 2:1 ratio in price. Besides the fact that we liked the wood trim, inside & out, much better in the older model, it simply didn't make financial sense to buy new, due to both depreciation and the fact that now 14 years later, we have a 26 year old boat where everything works, whereas we'd have had a 14 year old boat where everything, too, worked, but would be worth the almost the same resale value at twice the initial outlay. Say the difference between $49K and $60K, which would decrease as time goes by.

But, like parenting, "we're not in it for the money!"

Initial depreciation is a major factor in any "vehicle" purchase.

Condition, condition, condition is really THE factor. Having seen MUCH newer boats than the one we finally purchased in much worse condition, taught us that lesson. And, remember, we were looking ONLY at the specific boat we wanted.

We're glad we did.

On another forum, someone asked if the "restoration" they were doing on their new-to-them boat was of financial "value."

I responded:

...one may want to think of "work done" on the boat as either "maintenance" OR "improvements."

A GPS, a new VHF radio, other navigational tools could be considered improvements over and above basic necessities like a basic VHF. In most cases, because electronics improve so rapidly, there is little to be gained financially. Sometimes new owners prefer basic boat electronics so they can add the electronics THEY prefer. It's like adding the shag rugs YOU like before you sell a house: the new owners may NOT like them at all!

Maintenance includes just about everything else, much like what you pictured. Just because a previous owner neglected your boat doesn't mean that what you put into it means it is any more valuable. For example, neglected seacocks that didn't get exercised and need to be replaced, do not add any value to a boat. Many boats have skippers who do not neglect standing and
running rigging, or seacocks or blocks, but don't get premium prices for their boats.

The main differences here are significant FEATURES. For example, there was a post recently where the questioner asked if he could buy a boat in the Caribbean, sail it to Vancouver, and make money! Neglecting the cost of the trip for the moment, my response was that it would be difficult for him to find a boat in the Caribbean that had the diesel heaters so favored by folks in the Pacific Northwest.

So, put aside your approach to "investment" because it simply rarely works that way in real life.

In my readings of this and many other boating forums, many folks buy boats with the "dream" of "Sailing Away." Then they spend mega-bucks "restoring" their boat, only to have "life" (or the lack thereof) get in the way.

All too many may have spent those first two years at the dock, instead of, as John has done, getting on the boat and sailing it somewhere to learn, actually learn, what works and what doesn't.

So, figure out what YOU want to do, don't look at the #s only.

There's always this: The 200 Millionaire

And HAVE FUN. Whatever you do.

Good luck.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2013, 06:31   #27
Registered User
 
xeon_tsd's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: "Out There" (mailing Austin TX)
Boat: Lafitte 44
Posts: 419
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

Thanks for all the feed back. 1st off: I expect to loose money.... I have owned and lived on boats before, and even grew up with 'em. I have NO ILLUSIONS here. My thought process is "since I may need to borrow a little bit to get the boat might not the next person?"


I plan on putting 60-80% down. I dont mind paying off the last bit in 2 years to get the family more sailing time, and of course time to fiddle with things.
Definately used. No way I am buying a new boat. Funds dont = that kind of wasted boat bucks.
__________________
hopefully I will keep this updated.... http://svchapaai.com
xeon_tsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2013, 06:47   #28
Registered User
 
sailvayu's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Myers FL
Boat: Irwin 40
Posts: 878
Re: Age old question.. or is an old question of age?

I would not really get too wrapped up in thinking about boat buying like you were buying a car or other piece of equipment. It is impossible to say where boat prices will be 2 years from when you buy a boat these days. Prices are still down and banks in general are not leading for boats. I would focus on getting a boat that fits your needs. you would be best looking for a boat that someone has fixed up for cruising and then found they could not go do to health or other reasons. There are a surprising number of those out there. Focusing on financial recovery and age of the boat alone will get in in trouble in the end. Pick a popular boat with a good reputation and good resale value. Go sailing have fun enjoy life and when you get home and go to sell hope for the best, you have bought a lifetime of memories for you and your family and that is priceless!
__________________

__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboat.info
http://sailvayu.com/
sailvayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.