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Old 25-11-2010, 14:00   #31
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Our experiences with Horizon were real. Yes, the boat was initially "steerable" out of port but it was only when close hauled that the problems showed up. She simply would not sail. I later discovered that the maximum rudder angle was only 30 degrees when it should have been 45 degrees. Problems with the stops and maybe cable slippage on the quadrant perhaps? Suffice it to say they knew about the steering issues and still sent us out waving "have a nice vacation" - totally unconscionable in my opinion.
Why would she not sail close-hauled? If you need more than 30* rudder to track upwind something is wrong! You may be over-canvassed!! And also all that rudder will scrub a lot of speed off. Your partner complained about gybing. What was it.
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Old 25-11-2010, 14:31   #32
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BVI Horizon Moonshine Bavaria 33

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Too many things sound like an inexperienced operator rather than a boat problem..... again some one who simply post an attack with no basis for us to judge their knowledge isn't one I place a lot of confidence in.

Sorry but I live here and see the unqualified people out sailing every day most blaming the boat for not going where they want to go and failing to take the logical actions..... such as hire a qualified skipper if the trip is that important.

I seem to desire a large portion of Sea Salt to swallow much of this.

There is quite a difference between posting an "attack" and feeling obligated to let others know of our experience Chartering with Horizon.

Perhaps those who feel "attacked" by someone simply relating their experience....their opinions....may have something to be attacked... IE... perhaps personal vested interest in Horizon?...or they may be loyal to friends who do have a vested interest of some kind at Horizon? Just a thought...

The bottom line is there is no attack intended....My experience is much different from some other people who have chartered with Horizon, and were very impressed and pleased. I am not about to now, or ever just "go along with the crowd" nope...not for me...

The truth is what it is.... this was our experience...Never will we choose Horizon again. They were unprofessional in so many ways....and no...as it has been inferred...we did not lose a dime of our damage deposit...that is ridiculous.

It is no different from reading different restaurant reviews...A review is a snapshot...of one incident....good, bad, or ugly...

I decided to post the truth about our experience with Horizon...for whatever it is worth to someone else.... with nothing to gain except knowing that someone else maybe spared what we went through.

Its up to us as individual consumers to decide.

and I (with no appology) dont think that living in the BVI makes anyone an expert to judge so arrogantly someone else's experiences....I dont recall seeing anyone else on board our boat....

Living in the BVI does make you very privileged....
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Old 25-11-2010, 15:09   #33
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It is interesting that busyengineer and SweetSerenity both posted on Traveltalkonline about their charter but did not state that they were together or on the same boat making it appear like two different disgruntled charterers. Traveltalkonline: Horizon BVI charter
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Old 25-11-2010, 15:28   #34
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Hands down....Voyage Charters out of BVI and many other locations. They are the most professional I would expect any outfit to be. If they were any more professional I would feel guilty for the price I paid for the charter. Their catamarans are tip-top and set up for chartering. All of the catamarans are built in South Africa (last I knew). I would charter with them again in a heartbeat. I'm done with 2nd and 3rd tier charter companies.

Our first charter with with Barecat out of BVI's and we had refrigeration and engine problem (broken belts).

Our third charter in the Grenadines (cant remember the charter name), we had engine/fuel/and refrigeration problems.

Breakdowns are frustrating and equals lost "vacation time".

But, still some of the best I've every had....vacations that is!
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Old 25-11-2010, 17:15   #35
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We chartered with Horizon out of Nanny Cay - never again! I think we were just unlucky but they were very unprofessional, the boat was not ready when we got there and it had a serious perhaps even dangerous rudder problem and they still sent us out "have a nice vacation"..right.
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Old 25-11-2010, 18:05   #36
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Horizon vs BVI Yacht Charters

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It is interesting that busyengineer and SweetSerenity both posted on Traveltalkonline about their charter but did not state that they were together or on the same boat making it appear like two different disgruntled charterers. Traveltalkonline: Horizon BVI charter

Isn't it interesting that we are honest, consistent and use the same names...duh!

I also find it interesting that for the most part Sailors are the friendliest, most non-arrogant, helpful, kind, & some of the warmest, most genuine people I have ever met....seriously!!!
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Old 25-11-2010, 18:10   #37
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Thumbs up Horizon vs BVI Yacht Charters

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Hands down....Voyage Charters out of BVI and many other locations. They are the most professional I would expect any outfit to be. If they were any more professional I would feel guilty for the price I paid for the charter. Their catamarans are tip-top and set up for chartering. All of the catamarans are built in South Africa (last I knew). I would charter with them again in a heartbeat. I'm done with 2nd and 3rd tier charter companies.

Our first charter with with Barecat out of BVI's and we had refrigeration and engine problem (broken belts).

Our third charter in the Grenadines (cant remember the charter name), we had engine/fuel/and refrigeration problems.

Breakdowns are frustrating and equals lost "vacation time".

But, still some of the best I've every had....vacations that is!
I think I will check out Voyage...heard other good things as well about TMM and BVI out of Leverick Bay


thanks for sharing your experience!
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Old 26-11-2010, 11:20   #38
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I still need more salt.....

I know many ASA certified sailors and many are good but many only passed the courses and had no real sailing experience outside the class in the area and type sea conditions and boat type they see when they charter.

Not being familiar with a boat and blaming the boat and not advising the charter company is just a bit unreal.

Go ahead with your bashing / CYA if you wish...stories just do not have enough factual basis and lots of glaring inexperience showing, think most of us have the situation reasonable well understood.... failure point was IF you had a problem, the charter company Should have been notified and if necessary provide you with repairs or a different boat OR a qualified skipper for the location, conditions and boat type.
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Old 26-11-2010, 11:45   #39
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a qualified skipper for the location, conditions and boat type.
A qualification = capable/experienced.... I do not think so... I've seen/known quite a few Offshore/Ocean Yachtmasters who are total idiots.... its one thing in the class room/boat... but in the real world away from their psych back-up they're dangerous....
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Old 26-11-2010, 11:53   #40
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Reality Check. Sir with all due respect - you crack me up! I have been sailing for 15 years and have ALL the ASA certs including Offshore Passagemaking and 3 sailboat delivery's under my belt - 2 on the N Atlantic and one from S Africa to the Bahamas. I have my own boat - a
gorgeous Cherubini Hunter. I think that qualifies me no? I've sailed BVI to WPB, FL and BVI to Bermuda also - oops I lied - I do not have "ASA 113 - Trailable multihull cert" my mistake!

As far as Horizon - I pointed out discrepencies with the steering and they blew me off. It wasn't until we were close hauled under "ideal" 15-20 knot conditions that the problems with the steering showed up. Whilst others were sailing parallel to us Sandy Cay to Sandy Spit we had the wheel hard over and she would not sail! Too much canvas - no (reef 1 main and jib furled in a tad) - best speed 1 knot then a huge gybe! My opinion - maybe splippage of the cable on the quadrant. Rudder angle only 30 degrees max. Bottom line...Horizon knew of the steering problem and sent us out all the same. Is is better to stick to your itinerary or spend precious vacation time in port while they fix it?

All I'm trying to do here is prevent someone else chartering the defective Bavaria 33 named "Moonshine" - I'm sure Horizon run a tight operation but they need to maintain their boats a little more. Ruining someones vacation - how do you put a price on that?
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Old 26-11-2010, 12:20   #41
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I have to agree with Boatman61 about certs. When I took my ASA 106 Advanced Coastal Cruising exam and passed with flying colours - one student was hopeless and they helped him get through. I couldn't believe it but they (the sailing school) have a business to run and people ask "what is your pass percentage" - 97% sounds a lot better than 50% right? So we both have 106 and he has absolutely no clue...
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Old 26-11-2010, 12:20   #42
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]All I'm trying to do here is prevent someone else chartering the defective Bavaria 33 named "Moonshine" - I'm sure Horizon run a tight operation but they need to maintain their boats a little more. Ruining someones vacation - how do you put a price on that?[/FONT][/COLOR]
It seems you and your partner are trying to do much more from your multiple postings re Horizon Yacht Charters on this and other sites. I have not seen anyone else complaining about this boat. Take it up with Horizon. And why does your partner put this at the end of every one of her posts? "I am interested in communicating with anyone who has recently chartered Bavaria 33 Sailings Yachts, Moonshine and Dr's Orders from Horizon in the BVI. I am also interested in finding the Owner of Moonshine." I take it this was your first charter. From your posts I would put your problems down to inexperience. It is laudable that you are trying to " prevent someone else chartering the defective Bavaria 33 named "Moonshine" however I think contacting those that have chartered the boat in the past will not help them. Oh, and was the other Bavaria "Dr's Orders" "defective" too? What is your real motive here? I do not have any connection whatsoever with any charter company.
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Old 26-11-2010, 12:40   #43
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Vasco (Rick), sir, - I have no "ulterior" motive here except in preventing someone else being as dissapointed as I was. OK...please...you tell me - I pointed out that the wheel would only go maybe 7/8 turn (max) lock to lock and they said it was "normal" - I later contacted Bavaria Yachts GMBH in Germany and their engineering department said 2 turns lock to lock was standard - and a number of *actual* Bavaria 33 cruiser owners have since confirmed! One guy even went down to his boat in martha's vineyard (on his cell phone) to confirm. I think it all boils down to a matter of honour, trust, integrity - one does not like being deceived, lied to and deliberately misled. All Horizon needed to say was "hey maybe you're right - we will put you on another boat" - simple.
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Old 26-11-2010, 12:56   #44
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Wink By all means....

Vasco & Reality check......by all means....please take this opportunity....

please share with us....your certs and experience.....

what is it that makes you both so qualified to judge?

dont recall seeing anyone else on our boat...

I find it, myself , personally rather hard to swallow, based on your fervent attacks, that you, or that one of your friends does not have a vested interest somewhere with horizon....Friends of the owners perhaps....???

otherwise, why would you even care?

its weird...most people just read another's opinion...gleen what they wish from it and move on...

nothing else seems to make sense...

there is nothing out there to gain in this...except for the feeling that you have done the right thing....what grand feeling that is....

we could blow it off...but inside...there is this nagging feeling to prevent someone else from having the same issues with this boat..

Also it is important for the owners of Moonshine to realize that there are issues....I would want to know if it were my boat!

Again, I do find that for the most part...people who sail are the friendliest, warmest, most genuine people around....and it is unusual to run into someone who sails that is arrogant and self serving....I find that refreshing!
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Old 26-11-2010, 13:14   #45
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In fairness we only have one side of the story here. And from your posts I don't think we're getting all the information. I put it down to first time charterers. The bit about the sails is very telling. Checking the sails before setting out would have brought your "problems" to light. You obviously did not do this. Same thing with the bilge pump.

If you have a dispute with HYC take it up with them. From your posts in Traveltalk you had a great time. If the boat had a few flaws, get over it. It happens with all the charter outfits. Having chartered with about ten different companies over the years I can state that few of the boats were perfect but I had a great time on every charter.
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